Elephant Hunting Permit Issues South Africa

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by buy-a-donkey, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. buy-a-donkey

    buy-a-donkey AH Member

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    Gents,
    Leaving soon for another elephant in South Arica. Area is just outside Phalaborwa between the Salati and Oliphant River, bordering the Kruger.
    Issues is now as has always been the permit arriving on time. I have a backup buffalo tag, but I often feel that I don't get the whole story from my outfitter on the elephant tags.
    I understand they are a point of contention in that area, but I can't help but feel like outfitters sometimes wait to see who pays most, then the high bidder gets the tag and the other hunters are told that permits never came through?.. Possibly they over book these hunts and the quotas don't match up?

    If anyone had any idea, I'd like to know. Don't want to corner my PH and put him in a tight spot.

    Thanks,
     

  2. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    If you feel that way about this maybe you should talk with other outfitters. I would be willing to bet Pieter at Paw Print and some of the others on here could hook you up! However, It is my understanding that they get the license about 30 days out to six weeks out. The question is does your outfitter have a property owner who has quota?
    Pieter and I were going to hunt in the Phalaborwa area last year but moved the hunt down to Hodespruit area.
    Could be that there were license issues up there but if there was I wasn't aware of it!
     

  3. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    By the way your last tusker is a good looking one! Congrats!
     

  4. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Legally, to sell a hunt, an Outfitter is required to have an agreement in writing for the critter and the concession.
     

  5. buy-a-donkey

    buy-a-donkey AH Member

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    Guys,
    Both useful information that I really appreciate.
    Yes, the bull was a good old bull. Right at 45/51. Had to return in December as permits were issued late that year. It was a very difficult hunt, but ended well. I can't blame the outfitter or the PH that time. They both did what they had to and ultimately came through.
    I had two tags and couldn't fill the second, so I am heading back. Looks like the tag being issued is once again up in the air.
    Brick burn, very interesting. In ZA I would have thought something like this was required. It would make sense that the quota would have to be established before marketing the tag.
    We'll see. My main issue is that I never get "the story" that satisfies me. I am a very easy going guy who understands when things are out of the outfitter/PH's hands, but I am a mother if I find out I was deceived...
     

  6. siml

    siml AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I find it hard to believe these days with social media that there would still be outfitters that are trying to sell quota that they don't have especially elephant, where there is so much red tape involved.
     

  7. Joes

    Joes New Member

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    The process for hunting permits for reserves open to the KNP is long and starts with the animal census. The sustainable offtake is then determined by recognised experts and environmental is approval given, from there application is made for the actual hunting permit or "tag" from the relevant provincial body, either the Northwest or Mpumalanga. The permits are only valid for a period of time.

    As hunts are sold well in advance they are sold on approved offtake, depending on species and province the actual application for the permit may require the details of the hunter and the contract. If the reserve or landowner has the approved offtake I do not think there is anything to worry about, there could just be delays by the provincial authorities. This is not say the permits are not being sold to the highest bidders.
     
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  8. Patrick R

    Patrick R AH Fanatic

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    buy-a-donkey,

    1. It may be the authorities, this happens also...I know some Outfitters and do hunt a lot in the same area and most reputable Outfitters do have the quota before they sell to clients...So, permits should be in place...Will you be hunting the Grietjie / Umbabat area?

    2. Over booking happens a lot...

    3. If there is Outfitters out there that do sell to the highest bidder, while they already have a opportunity for a client to take the tag, I myself wouldn't not hunt with them at all and will be seeking other hunting field...
     

  9. jand

    jand AH Veteran

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    Sir , I sincerely hope you have your Elephant situation sorted out. I have been hunting these areas for almost 2 decades. I also sometimes sell some of my quota to other outfitters. Things should however always be clear.
    You are welcome to PM , e mail or call me . I will gladly assist where I can.

    Hunting regards
     
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  10. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Precisely!
     

  11. Michael Dean

    Michael Dean AH Enthusiast

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    The investment of time and financial resources required for an elephant hunts today mandates that your Outfitter and PH afford you 110% of their attention to make certain that you are getting the very best in terms of service and opportunity. I can't believe that an outfitter would accept this caliber of hunt without first procuring the necessary permits and tags. Personally speaking, if I had any reservation that my outfitter was not ensuring me that the necessary tag for an elephant was not in fact secured before I booked, there is no way I'd make that type of financial investment in a hunt. The notion of booking a safari with the Idea that a second species such as a buffalo could be taken in compensation as opposed to an elephant simply wouldn't suffice.

    In simple layman's language, if you're going to invest in an elephant safari, the outfitter damn well better have licenses and permits with my name on them when I arrive.
     
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  12. wesheltonj

    wesheltonj AH Elite

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    Hope you have your permit to bring back your ivory in place.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016

  13. buy-a-donkey

    buy-a-donkey AH Member

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    Appreciate all the replies.
    I was fairly familiar with the process that Joes laid out. Poaching and environmental conditions may render a difference between the estimated quota and the final one rendered from aerial surveys and such. I get that. I also understand that the government might hold up the process a bit. However, as stated above, these are the most expensive hunts in Africa and honestly, the most prone to disappointment.
    The only issue that would be unacceptable would be being told there was no permit, only to find out that other clients in the same area shot elephant before or after your trip.
    If it doesn't turn out, you guys will get all the detailed information... Trust me.
    As I stated before, if there was a high chance of not having a permit because of red tape, fine, that is reality of the times. However, prepare me for the reality and it would be a little less of a let down.
     
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  14. jand

    jand AH Veteran

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    How did your Elephant hunt turn out Sir ?
     

  15. buy-a-donkey

    buy-a-donkey AH Member

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    Well... Not looking good. I leave today for ZA and I have been told that Phalaborwa area is completely shut down to hunting. The story I was told is that there are no permits for the areas around the mine, just up river from the damn. Shame, because there were big buffs, plenty of elephant and good plains game to boot. Once again, this is the story I was told. No idea what's really going on.
    We are now heading further north to a concession that is supposedly bordered by the Limpopo River on the north and Kruger on the East. While I made it known that I was upset we were just being told last minute that the hunting area has changed, I assume the new area would have equally decent game. However, it's frustrating when you think you know where you are going and then last minute, everything changes. Mozambique was a wonderful unknown adventure for me that I would do again. But sometimes you like to know where you are going.
    Elephant wise, I am being told that while there is a slim chance a permit would come up while I am there, it's not likely. That basically means that once again I am in a position where I don't know what's actually going on. All I know is if that's how I ran my business, I'd be out of business. The only reason I haven't cancelled and sued for a refund is that I am bringing a good friend on his first safari. I know that whatever happens, he'll have a great time and that will be nice to see.
    So, if you have any insight or know of available tags, let me know.
    Appreciate you checking in...
     

  16. jand

    jand AH Veteran

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    PM sent
     

  17. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    This whole scenario just smells like steaming piles of :A Shit::A Shit::A Shit::A Shit::A Shit:

    I hope you get it worked out.
     

  18. AaronN

    AaronN AH Senior Member

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    Sorry to hear of your potential troubles. I would strongly encourage you to talk with Jan - Shumba Safaris, hopefully he can help. We've been friends since 2004, hunted together, and many of my friends/clients have hunted the Limpopo province with Jan. You can count on, and believe what he tells you.
     

  19. Nyati

    Nyati AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Not the first time I´ve heard that story, about a hunter being offered an elephant, and then there is no permit. Of course the local authorities are always blamed.
     

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