EBOLA Contract?

[WildAmerican]

There is a lot of discussion around the EBOLA outbreak and spread lately. I am the President of our local SCI Chapter. Recent talk has of some of our members considering adding an EBOLA clause in their contracts. I can't really argue with that given the weak response in Africa and the potential for spread to other African countries. A clause that gives them the option to re-schedule their hunt if EBOLA is in that particular Country. I think this is going to gain momentum if the disease continues to spread. I am a bit worried about the African Countries ability to handle a widespread outbreak, particularly with such weak public health systems. What is your opinion?

 

[BRICKBURN]

What clause would you add to the contract?
You won't go hunting if there is one Ebola case in the country?
Not hunting in the USA this year? US citizens seem to keep importing the disease quite regularly!

From the CDC
You want to worry about something try this one on for size:

MRSA (Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus)

MRSA is methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, a type of staph bacteria that is resistant to certain antibiotics and may cause skin and other infections. Invasive (i.e., serious) MRSA infections occur in approximately 94,000 people each year and are associated with approximately 19,000 deaths, most frequently among persons in hospitals and health care facilities who have weakened immune systems.7,8 MRSA can also infect otherwise healthy people in the community at large. Community-associated MRSA cases are usually manifested as skin infections, such as pimples and boils.

 

[Red Leg]

We do obsess over these things. One of the benefits of a military career in combat arms is the crystal clarity having been shot at brings to most future issues. My son and I were just wading around the Zambezi Delta. Let's see, the odds of picking up a touch of dengue fever, schistosomiasis, bilharzia, hookworm, trypanosomiasis, shigella, and malaria - not to mention old favorites like yellow fever and cholera - are infinitely higher than coming in contact with an infectious ebola case no matter how endemic the disease may become on the African continent.

 

[ActionBob]

It might make sense to at least have an opt out clause if flights are cancelled in and especially out of a country. Personally I think the biggest risk is that one would go, and have real problems getting back.

What if you go to West Africa and a ban on flights or even on passengers coming from that region is instituted? Too late at that point, but if you are booked and something happens, it would be good to be able to get out of the contract and get your money back.

I do agree that cancelling a trip because of a couple isolated cases of Ebola might be overkill. I think I would focus the contract more on the potential repercussions of such a thing.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Just wanted to add that as to date, not a single case of Ebola in South Africa.

 

[ActionBob]

Thanks Marius,

Has there even been a case in any of the bordering countries to RSA?

Do you (or anyone) know if it is common to connect through Joberg for people returning to Europe or USA from the infected West African areas?

I have no worries about being in country, any concern would be in the confines of an airplane.

 

[ActionBob]

I might add, we can really get crazy in the USA about this stuff. Even though we were in Southern RSA, one hell of a long ways from any area with Ebola, and that we were there in April, people still ask me all coy like "well you were in Africa, aren't you worried?".... I try to explain how large Africa is and how far away those areas are from RSA, but their eyes gloss over and they really don't conceive of the concept.... I think we have people in this country who think Africa is all one country.

Sometime you just can't fix stupid.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Thanks Marius,

Has there even been a case in any of the bordering countries to RSA?

Do you (or anyone) know if it is common to connect through Joberg for people returning to Europe or USA from the infected West African areas?

I have no worries about being in country, any concern would be in the confines of an airplane.

I don't believe there has been a single case in any of South Africa's immediate neighboring countries either.

 

[Jfet]

The leading cause of death in the world today is conception.

I told my high school students they have a greater chance of dying in a car accident on the way home from school than they have of getting Ebola. None of them were hesitating to get into the car.

Common Sense always wins the day.

So what is the best insurance for dealing with a cape buffalo charge?

 

[BRICKBURN]

………... I try to explain how large Africa is and how far away those areas are from RSA, but their eyes gloss over and they really don't conceive of the concept.... I think we have people in this country who think Africa is all one country.

Sometime you just can't fix stupid.

Geographic ignorance is amazing. You can drop by my Igloo for a drink some time.
Oh yeah, you even live further north than me.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

So what is the best insurance for dealing with a cape buffalo charge?

.40 and up.

 

[enysse]

MRSA is any hospital or nursing home, I deal with it daily....still alive and well.

The media loves to scare people, frankly it seems to be their job, they love to create fear and anxiety....they feed off it.

Still I do worry about our government, they have little faith in common sense...every day doing more and more stupid things.

And just remember outfitters, can't control everything...it's just not possible financially to be responsible for every little thing.

 

[CAustin]

Ebola like anything else is going to run its course. It may become a Pandemic yet. However, One should not expect the outfitter to put an Ebola clause in the contract. They have to make a living and if you plan a trip and don't go you forfeit the deposit.
I will add that if this thing does become a Pandemic and spread all over the world there will not be a lot of hunters coming to any country to hunt.
TV news in America is blowing this thing way up folks.

 

[WildAmerican]

What clause would you add to the contract?
You won't go hunting if there is one Ebola case in the country?
Not hunting in the USA this year? US citizens seem to keep importing the disease quite regularly!

From the CDC
You want to worry about something try this one on for size:

MRSA (Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus)

MRSA is methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, a type of staph bacteria that is resistant to certain antibiotics and may cause skin and other infections. Invasive (i.e., serious) MRSA infections occur in approximately 94,000 people each year and are associated with approximately 19,000 deaths, most frequently among persons in hospitals and health care facilities who have weakened immune systems.7,8 MRSA can also infect otherwise healthy people in the community at large. Community-associated MRSA cases are usually manifested as skin infections, such as pimples and boils.

So you would go hunting in Liberia? I believe we have the infrastructure and public health system to contain it, obviously Liberia and other African Countries do not. My point is this, it is and will be an issue to many people and their spouses. If it does spread to other African Countries there will be concern and it will impact the hunting community. I think there is legitimate concern.

My daughter acquired a MRSA infection volunteering at a Woman's Care Center, she went on anti-biotics and was cured. EBOLA is 90% fatal at present.

To answer your question, I would consider a clause, that if EBOLA becomes an issue in a particular Country, that we would have the option to re-schedule the hunt at a later date. Don't get me wrong, I love Africa. It is my favorite place in the World, but this will be an issue, I am already hearing about it from members of my chapter.

 

[gillettehunter]

I am considering Africa for next year. I'll probably want a delay clause if Ebola becomes a larger problem, especially near a area I could be hunting. As a hunter its unlikely you'd be exposed. More likely a problem coming/going to Africa. Bruce

 

[enysse]

We will see how this plays out, I'm not going to let the media pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Fear is dangerous thing.

 

[MPN]

Your concern is valid. Ebola is still a relatively new virus. Even more so for the western world.
With the ease of travel these days and the lax enforcement of isolation/quarantine by third world countries of those infected...the spread is worrying.

The CDC claims to know some of the specifics regarding transmission, incubation, signs/symptoms, ect. , but i think it important to keep in mind there is no vaccine nor cure for this virus to date.
As we now know, It has been proven one can survive with unique care at a few capable centers in the states.
No fear-mongering meant, just be aware of the possibilities with a virus about which much is yet unknown and the logistical quandary if infected far from the states.

 

[BRICKBURN]

So you would go hunting in Liberia?

Nope.

Not the first hunting destination I'm looking at though. Am I going to modify my plans to go hunting in the USA, South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe or Mozambique. Not one iota.
Change to travel; No slow boats through West Africa treatment centres.

For edification, I copied the current Canadian travel advisories for various hunting destinations:

"LIBERIA - AVOID NON-ESSENTIAL TRAVEL
Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Canada advises against non-essential travel to Liberia, due to the Ebola outbreak and its impacts on mobility and access to quality health care."

UNITED STATES - Exercise normal security precautions
There is no nationwide advisory in effect for the United States (U.S.). Exercise normal security precautions.

SOUTH AFRICA - Exercise a high degree of caution
There is no nationwide advisory in effect for South Africa. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to the significant level of serious crime.

NAMIBIA - Exercise a high degree of caution
There is no nationwide advisory in effect for Namibia. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to the high level of crime.

Zimbabwe - Exercise a high degree of caution
There is no nationwide advisory in effect for Zimbabwe. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to the unpredictable security situation and carefully evaluate the implications for your security and safety.

Zambia - Exercise a high degree of caution
There is no nationwide advisory in effect for Zambia. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to crime and frequent demonstrations.
Regional Advisory for the areas bordering the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Angola and Mozambique
Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Canada advises against non-essential travel to areas bordering the DRC, Angola and Mozambique. The possibility of border conflicts and/or the presence of refugees and armed combatants make these areas potentially dangerous and unstable. Carjacking and armed assaults also pose a risk. Landmines present a risk in Zambia's border areas with Angola and Mozambique. Consult the Security tab for more information.

MOZAMBIQUE - Exercise a high degree of caution
There is no nationwide advisory in effect for Mozambique. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to violent crime, including a recent significant increase in cases of kidnappings.

BOTSWANA - Exercise normal security precautions
There is no nationwide advisory in effect for Botswana. Exercise normal safety precautions.

I believe we have the infrastructure and public health system to contain it,
obviously Liberia and other African Countries do not. My point is this, it is and will be an issue to many people and their spouses. If it does spread to other African Countries there will be concern and it will impact the hunting community. I think there is legitimate concern.

I agree there is a basis for legitimate concern. If you or anyone else is concerned don't go. Take care of your health as you see fit. It's your right.

First world infrastructure works fine, unless the next Emergency Nurse does not bother to ask a couple of simple questions with the next patient presentation of fever. e.g.. Dallas.
We'll see what that little oversight causes. Beyond the tension and panic already rising. I sincerely hope they caught it.

My daughter acquired a MRSA infection volunteering at a Woman's Care Center, she went on anti-biotics and was cured. EBOLA is 90% fatal at present.

Lucky for her she was one of the lucky ones. I'm glad she recovered.
19,000 US citizens were not as lucky last year. Way more than Ebola will kill in the US this year!

There are two sides to your statistics game.
Cranial gun shot wounds are 90% Fatal too!
So, what.
Don't point the gun at your head and you are not going to be part of that 90% fatality rate!
I doubt you are going to sell your guns after reading this statistic.
It just appears that people have less influence/control over Ebola than they do with a firearm. Thus, it is scary.
Take all reasonable safety precautions and you won't die from a cranial gunshot wound or get sick.

As Red Leg said, there are plenty of other deadly diseases present in Africa that are much more likely to "get you" than Ebola.
I have taken all reasonable precautions against disease through vacs and avoidance (bug spray), not drinking from the Zambezi, etc. Don't play in "Alex" after dark.

To answer your question, I would consider a clause, that if EBOLA becomes an issue in a particular Country, that we would have the option to re-schedule the hunt at a later date. Don't get me wrong, I love Africa. It is my favorite place in the World, but this will be an issue, I am already hearing about it from members of my chapter.

I think it is a personal matter you can address with the each outfitter. They can choose to assess their risk and enter into the agreement if they wish. Every outfitter has to deal with cancellations and set a policy.
Don't enter an agreement you are not comfortable with. Address all your personal "What If's"



Here are some of the health advisories and the defined risk level.
Interestingly, Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone are a Level 3 NOT 4. There are measures that can be taken to avoid the disease in country.

 

[BRICKBURN]

…………….

As we now know, It has been proven one can survive …………...

I just witnessed Ebola survivor celebrations occurring in Guinea. So, its true. People are surviving. I hope that can lead to some research break throughs.

 

[Heym 88]

I would be willing to say that an Ebola vaccine has been around a long time. Why haven't we used it? Simple, not enough money to be made because not enough people sick. It wouldn't surprise me at all. Guess that's how much distrust I have in private pharmaceutical companies these days.