Double rifle moral dilemma

[Roland Tembo]

I like double rifles.

Let’s say I could grab a .470 NE double rifle for the same amount or even less money than the same gun from the same manufacturer in 9,3x74R.

I’d love, but it’s not into plans at the moment, to go to Africa (out of budget, for what I want).

So the .470 NE would be just a gun for dreaming, at least for quite some while. On the opposite hand, the 9,3x74R could be helping me if I decide to start hunting red stags or driven wild boars (biggest game available around Europe).

I’d love to have at least one gun capable to pick any game on planet Earth. The fact the 9,3x74R is not legal for big game hunting in some african countries really turns me down, especially when the guns would cost me about the same.

I know the .470 NE is just too much for my local fauna: factory loads cost x3 times a 9,3x74R round; 500 gr vs 286 gr also makes a whole lot of difference… and last thing I want is to buy me a “corpse” into my gun closet.

But elephants apart, I’ve seen warthogs blasted on the spot with a .470 NE so… why shouldn’t I pick the .470 NE, dream of Africa, and in the while maybe once or twice a year use the .470 against red stags or wild boars when I need a stopper costing me 15€ per round?

 

[RR 314]

Go with the .470. It seems as if it will make you happy. Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued. ---Socrates.

There is no morality involved in this so called dilemma. Roll with what you want. Contextually, it is the .470.

 

[Puddle]

The only solution to this particular dilemma is to buy 'em both.

 

[Red Leg]

I had that ache once upon a time.

If you buy the .470, your heir or the next purchaser will likely inherit or buy a pristine firearm even if you do make that dream hunt for Buffalo and elephant. I am fairly certain you will never take that .470 on a driven hunt in Europe more than once. On the other hand, should you purchase that 9.3 the same people will inherit or buy a well used, lovingly cared for rifle about which dozens of stories could be told. I recently sold my .470 in the same pristine condition I purchased it. I have a 500/416 that has never been to Africa and never killed anything more dangerous than paper. But my Blaser S2 with .375 and 30-06 barrels has taken buffalo and plains game in Africa, and boar here in the States. My 9.3 has taken bear in Canada and boar and deer here in the States.

For me, the decision would not even be close.

 

[BryceM]

Well, it might be a dilemma, but it’s scarcely a moral dilemma.

I bought a .416 Rigby ages before I had a legitimate chance to use it. Sometimes it’s OK to exercise faith and dream.

 

[Pondoro]

A 9.3 x 74R is a perfect rifle for driven hunts in Europe..as the 8 x 75JRS.. I suggest you start there..

And there is no morale here..just pure enjoyment..

 

[Hunter4752001]

The 9.3x74R is legal for most large plains game. It is only restricted in terms of dangerous game, and then only in certain places. If the Dangerous Game restriction is a big issue for you, then maybe consider a .375 H&H Flanged Magnum and use it on everything. Having said that, I'm sure a 9.3x74R would give you much more use.

 

[franzfmdavis]

Buying the 470 will help bend your thoughts and energies on hunting in Africa for such game as the caliber was intended. This will in turn open your mind to opportunities that overlook! I wouldn’t be surprised if you were using it within 18 months!

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I really like the .500/416 Nitro Express as an all-round general purpose dangerous game caliber which can still be used for plains game (within the bounds of reason, of course).

 

[K-man]

A different take on your situation - Buy the 9.3 now from a current manufacturer, like Heym, then add a second set of barrels later in the .470 when you "need" them. Plenty of enablers here on AH.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

A different take on your situation - Buy the 9.3 now from a current manufacturer, like Heym, then add a second set of barrels later in the .470 when you "need" them. Plenty of enablers here on AH.

Good idea but the receivers will be much larger for a 470 NE than a 9.3. Especially for a Heym which has five different receiver sizes.

Have you noticed that 9.3 doubles are less expensive than the next level of cartridge size such as 375 Flanged or H&H, 450/400 and so on?

 

[K-man]

Good idea but the receivers will be much larger for a 470 NE than a 9.3. Especially for a Heym which has five different receiver sizes.

Have you noticed that 9.3 doubles are less expensive than the next level of cartridge size such as 375 Flanged or H&H, 450/400 and so on?

Yes of course they do. But if you know you may want it in the future you spec that out now. I have seen many sets with multiple barrel sets, and people do order additional barrels later. If you plan for it now.

 

[freefall]

Sounds to me like the OP has two specific rifles in mind, the .470 costing less than the 9.3.
Or maybe I misunderstook.

 

[One Day...]

I am with Red Leg on this one...

The .470 will feed the dream. That is what my first double, a Belgian Jules Burry in .450 #2 did. I resold it 20 years later, after finally burying Denys Finch Hatton and realizing that I would never "have a farm in Africa" (Karen von Blixen-Finecke), and before I ever went to Africa... But I LOVED the countless evenings I read Patterson, Bell, Hemingway, Taylor, Ruark, Capstick, Harland, Hunter, Percival, Nyschens, Holmberg, Kinloch, Henley, Manners, et al. with it within grasp on the gun rack...

Then life (i.e. getting the 5 kids through college and out of the house) made it possible to go to Africa. I immediately bought my second double, a Krieghoff .470. I hunted Buffalo, Elephant, and Lion with it. I DID shoot one Buffalo with it, but subsequent Buffalo, and Elephant, and Lion, I hunted - i.e. carried for days on - with the .470, but I shot with my backup (on the shoulder of a tracker) scoped Blaser R8 with .375 H&H or .458 Lott barrels.

I have now sold my .470 K Gun because I shoot the R8 thousands of times more than I could EVER shoot the .470 (I have both .223 Rem and .22 LR practice R8 barrels in addition to .458 Lott, .375 H&H, .300 Wby, .257 Wby R8 barrels) and my muscle memory is with the R8.

I will go Red Leg on more step, which I suspect he will back me on: I suggest, Roland Tembo, that you buy a Blaser R8 in 9.3x62. You can then add later whatever you want/need. Will you go after Camoscio (Chamois) in the Alps or Dolomites? .270 or .257 Wby barrel! Will you go after Kudu in the Karoo? .300 Win or Wby barrel! Will you go after Elephant in the Chewore? .416 Rem or .458 Lott barrel! Will you need one rifle to do it all on Buffalo and PG in the Moyowosi? .375 H&H barrel! Will you go on a Wildschwein (Wild Boar) drive in the Black Forest? 9.3x62 barrel! Do you need to train your shooting skills? In a city shooting gallery? .22 LR barrel! At a shooting range? .223 Rem or .222 Rem barrel!

When everything is said and done, yes the double will give you a slightly faster second shot, but the R8 will give a light-year faster third and fourth shot... not to mention the ideal caliber for nearly anything you may want to hunt anywhere...

Many of us have filled entire racks and even rooms with rifles, often prestigious and mythical, and end up only grabbing for the R8 when we actually go hunting seriously...

 

[Green Chile]

I don't see it as a moral issue. I do see it as logic vs passion. That answer depends on you. Are you happier feeding the emotion or the logic side in life? Only you can really answer that. For most guys, a big double is a toy...for others, they try to use them every year on DG. Some like punching paper with them. A lot of guys get one, play with it and move on.

If you really want to use this gun in the field, get the 9.3 or as my friend @One Day...suggested, get ultra practical and look at the R8. Look up his topic on the R8 and how he made those decisions. Several of us have also gone that route and there's solid logic to support it. Or feed the emotional side and get the big double. Only you know which is the more interesting itch to answer.

 

[ActionBob]

It sounds like you really want the 470NE and that it is potentially the much better deal. So a few thoughts; If this is truly a great deal, perhaps you can buy it, shoot it to get that fever cured, and re-sell it at a profit!

If you can hand load. Load the 470 down with some lighter bullets, perhaps CEB Raptors or something of the sort. And use it locally.

Or don't buy either. Buy a lower cost rifle (or non at all if you have others) and put the extra money into an investment account to build your wealth so you don't have to make these decisions in the future

 

[CZDiesel]

Well I’m gonna go in a different direction from everyone here lol
I’d buy the 470 and for this reason alone!
You can buy 420gr North Fork Semi Spitzers along with full house 500gr rounds from many companies…
So yes the 420 is still a little heavy but through load development you can fine a down loaded round that will regulate and be on par with the 9.3, then you can also load it up to its full potential when the time comes…
You can make the 470 into a 9.3 but you can never make a 9.3 into a 470!
Just my 2c and you know what’s that worth these days lol

 

[Wyatt Smith]

But what you want now. If it’s a good deal you can always sell it later if you decide to want something else. You might even get lucky and break even on the deal.

 

[grand veneur]

I like double rifles.

Let’s say I could grab a .470 NE double rifle for the same amount or even less money than the same gun from the same manufacturer in 9,3x74R.

I’d love, but it’s not into plans at the moment, to go to Africa (out of budget, for what I want).

So the .470 NE would be just a gun for dreaming, at least for quite some while. On the opposite hand, the 9,3x74R could be helping me if I decide to start hunting red stags or driven wild boars (biggest game available around Europe).

I’d love to have at least one gun capable to pick any game on planet Earth. The fact the 9,3x74R is not legal for big game hunting in some african countries really turns me down, especially when the guns would cost me about the same.

I know the .470 NE is just too much for my local fauna: factory loads cost x3 times a 9,3x74R round; 500 gr vs 286 gr also makes a whole lot of difference… and last thing I want is to buy me a “corpse” into my gun closet.

But elephants apart, I’ve seen warthogs blasted on the spot with a .470 NE so… why shouldn’t I pick the .470 NE, dream of Africa, and in the while maybe once or twice a year use the .470 against red stags or wild boars when I need a stopper costing me 15€ per round?

...but Africa is not Europe where different rules prevail, especially when it comes to the choice of rifles and calibers for hunting. The current trend in Western Europe are nowadays rifles of small calibers. Bigger or Magnum calibers are not welcome everywhere, let alone big bores for hunting African big game.

That's why you have to particularly think about using a DR caliber 470 Nitro Express for hunting in Europe, be it you are the owner of the hunting area or the organizer of the wild boar driving hunt for example, otherwise you may perhaps have problems being invited as a guest somewhere for hunting.

Just for fun you can buy whatever, also a DR caliber 470 Nitro Express, but if hunting especially in Europe is on the agenda, you are in all cases well and better served with a DR caliber 9,3x74R.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I had a similar dilemma years ago. I was offered any Merkel SxS at a greatly reduced price. I immediately wanted 500 NE or 470 NE. Then I turned off the connection between my heart and mind and went with the 9.3x74R. No regrets. Later I had a 500NE and a 450/400. Neither went to Africa but the 9.3 has been twice. I also love using it on pigs and deer.

Safe hunting