Double Rifle: Ejectors vs Extractor

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by redassnavajo, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. redassnavajo

    redassnavajo AH Veteran

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    Ok I have been looking at double rifles for about a year now and really considering picking one up this summer , I wanted to know from the members on here that actually have hunted with either what there opinion was. Thanks in advance for any info.
     
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  2. 8 x 60

    8 x 60 AH Veteran

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    There will be as many viewpoints on this as there are over whether blonds or brunettes are preferable.
    Ejectors will facilitate a faster reload of course but make a noise. Speaking as someone who has only ever faced the charge of an angry dog and my Mrs I can't comment on the effect this noise may have on alerting a D G animal to your whereabouts on a follow-up. I am sure others with knowledge of the subject can offer their viewpoints.

    I have a number of shotguns with ejectors and frankly having them generally just makes picking up the empty shells more of a chore than lifting them from the gun and putting in my pocket. There are rare exceptions of course but it is not often I enjoy a driven shoot with too many birds passing over and the gun empty. My only double rifle has ejectors. As I have to reform the brass from another calibre in the first place, having them shoot over my shoulder into the mud/undergrowth etc in order to recover can be a little tiresome, however I can, if needed ,reload quicker should a posse of pigs head my way.

    In an ideal world I think having the option to disable the ejectors so they become extractors would be the best way.

    It's a similar discussion to whether auto or manual safety (on a double) is best. (My vote is for manual, fwiw)

    What are you going to hunt with it? That is probably a good starting point for your decision process
     
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  3. DUGABOY1

    DUGABOY1 CONTRIBUTOR AH Enthusiast

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    There is no doubt that the ejectors are faster in a re-load situation where one is in a very close charge of a very dangerous animal set on running you over. When you are dealing with one animal the sound makes little difference. However when hunting things like tuskless cow elephant in tight jess that little "PING" may get you some unwanted company. With Cape buffalo it makes little difference. If a buffalo is going to charge then the only thing that will stop him is shooting him.

    On the subject of the ability to disengage the ejectors, Heym has an option for that very thing. There is a button on the fore-end that allows you to turn the ejectors into extractors and back again.

    I have doubles with both ejectors and/or extractors, and I find that I have never found a need for a faster re-load than I can do with extractors on a rifle as big as a 470NE double.

    On the auto safety, I fail to see the sense in that! How would you like a bolt rifle that put the rifle on safe every time the bolt was worked to re-load the chamber? IMO That makes no more sense on a double rifle. I've had several double rifles with auto safeties and have to date disabled the auto feature on them.
    I took a real raking over the coals by one of guard dog personalities on another web-site, because I had not disabled that feature on one of my double rifles when I had been recommending it be done by others.
    ........................................................................Mac :D
     
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  4. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Hello redassnavajo,

    Ejectors are my preference but, only slightly.
    In other words, at my blue collar pay level, twice I have found an otherwise "excellent in every other way" double, (especially including a reasonable price) with only extractors but each time, I bought them anyway, trained mightily with same, and happily hunted with them (each a few years apart).
    If you "use enough gun" as Robert Ruark had once said "and you shoot it well in the first place", (as I had once said - LOL), ejectors vs extractors becomes nearly pointless, except perhaps as DUGGABOY1 pointed out - among an angry mob of elephant (I however am too dull to have ever worried about it .... at least not very much).

    Also, I totally agree with DUGABOY1, in that I see no earthly use for an "automatic safety catch" on any hunting rifle, double or otherwise.
    So far, I have hunted with the two separate double rifles mentioned above, in Africa.
    Once was for "plains game" and once for buffalo and "PG", both as mentioned were extractor types only but now, those have been sold and my double rifle today is an ejector gun (that sadly I've not bagged anything except targets with).

    Cal Pappas (fellow AH member and world authority on double rifles) has hunted many times in Africa with vintage English doubles, I believe most of which are extractor guns only.
    I have not heard him complain that he wanted ejectors on any of his many African (and Australian, North American, etc.) adventures.
    Extractors or ejectors, either way - for big game hunting, from bayonet range out to about 150 paces, there is nothing quite like a double.

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
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  5. Jfet

    Jfet AH Elite

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    watching reading and learning
     
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  6. AZDAVE

    AZDAVE AH Elite

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    Have double with both and really have no preference. The funny one is at the range I always get annoyed when I switch from the extractor double to the ejector double and bounce the brass off some part of my anatomy. Haven't hunted elephant with a double yet so can't comment on noise while in close. But cape buff don't care. I completely agree with Velo Dog and Dugaboy1 on the automatic saftey.
     
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  7. Ray B

    Ray B AH Elite

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    I shoot break-action shotguns at the range and to avoid chasing the empty hulls upon opening the gun I hold my grip hand above the action to catch the ejecting hulls. If I start using a break action rifle on DG I will keep the Newhall Syndrome in mind. In 1970 near Newhall some California Highway Patrol officers got into a firefight with some bank robbers. Four of the officers were killed. After Action investigation showed that the officers reverted to the muscle memory learned while practicing on the pistol range. The common practice was to avoid having to pickup the empty brass from their revolvers, they'd empty the fired brass into their hand as they reloaded. Under the stress of the shoot-out the officers fired their six shots, emptied the brass into their hand then mixed the empty brass with the loaded brass as they tried to reload. The moral of the story is, which ever system you want to use when hunting DC, use that system during practice.
     
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  8. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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  9. 8 x 60

    8 x 60 AH Veteran

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    My reply was also clear on my preferring non auto safety
    (Though I realise this was not part of his original question)
     

  10. zephyr

    zephyr AH Enthusiast

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    Some Ramblins....
    I own a 1905 Gibbs in 450NE, it is a non ejector gun and has an auto safety.
    I have practiced hard to be efficient in quickly reloading this gun whether I have fired one or two rounds. When I shot my Tuskless she dropped at the first shot, at the sound of the shot the rest of the herd turned and started toward the noise. As I was reloading the right barrel my PH whispered that we needed to retreat. Would the ping of an ejector have given us away? don't no. Better yet would the cycling of a bolt have given us away? Hard to say most of us try to have the bolt cycled before the sound of the shot dies away.
    Ejectors are an added cost and one more mechanical feature that could possibly go wrong.
    Auto Safeties;
    I have been shooting sxs shotguns for along time, all have auto safeties, guns get fired, guns get reloaded and fired again, safeties go off automatically without any thought. When I first got my Gibbs I was intent on disconnecting the Auto Safety, but, disconnecting the auto safety on my double became more trouble than it was worth so I opted not to remove it. I felt it was not a big concern with my handling of other auto safety guns. I would be very concerned if I gave this gun to someone else to sort out a problem who was not familiar with auto safeties.
    If some day I decide to trade in my current double it will probably have Ejectors and no Auto Safety.
    Good Luck with the search, handle as many double guns that you can before you decide to purchase and let us know what you decide.
     
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  11. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    As another DR owner wanna be, is the noise of the ejector model that is of concern from the ejectors themselves, brass hitting the ground or a combination of both?
     

  12. zephyr

    zephyr AH Enthusiast

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    In this day an age with the way we hunt and the game we hunt I believe being concerned about ejector noise is of no concern. Back in the day when hunters found themselves in the middle of a Ele herd perhaps their observations led them to preferring non ejector guns, or perhaps it was all that was available to them at the time. Ejectors were an extra cost and may be tricky things, I have put tens of thousand of rounds through shotguns and have only had two ejector malfunctions that I recall.
    To answer your question I believe it is a combination of the ejectors kicking and the brass being ejected from the chambers.
     
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  13. Jfet

    Jfet AH Elite

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    Not sure which would be louder the noise from the ejectors or my breathing.:unsure:
     
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  14. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    o_O....and what would you be watching on your phone instead of concentrating on the hunt?........:whistle:;):E Big Grin:
     
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  15. Jfet

    Jfet AH Elite

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    You mean you can watch things on your phone besides the numbers. :A Yell:

    What a marvelous modern age we live in.:A Banana:

    Actually, in my younger days as an offensive lineman playing American Football I could actually run a mile in five and half minutes. In order to move that large muscle mass, that fast, and that far extreme breathing was required. Today I can walk a mile in fifteen minutes but I am just as good at breathing. I am sure that after I fire a double rifle at a cape buffalo nobody is going to hear the ping of the ejectors. Everybody including the buffalo will start looking for Darth Vader.:D
     
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  16. rnovi

    rnovi AH Enthusiast

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    Hello All,

    I can really only comment on what I know from books. I do have a Double rifle & Shotgun (Merkel 141 in 9.3x74r, ejectors...and a Browning O/U 20ga find shotgun with ejectors).

    What I understand from the books is that the ejectors give a marginally faster reload. On the other hand, they make a very distinct "ping" noise. This may not be important at 100 or 200 yards...or even 40 yards... but in the middle of a herd of elephant it's a very real liability. From reading I understand that, hunting elephants in the middle of the herd it's not the shot that actually attracts the elephant. At the close 10-20 yard distance the sound is enveloping and direction is not able to be discerned. I can't remember where I read it but it's the PING of the shells that actually gives direction. Apparently it happens just far enough after the shot that one can discern direction...and the result is herd of very agitated elephant storming the general location of the ping. So, extractors...reload silently...whack two more 100# elephants and then two more.

    This is business. The job of the PH is truly, professional killing and Ivory. The more that gets killed, the more money comes to the table. And the real question is: how to maximize the profits of any given moment.

    So, ping is bad...but ping gives faster reload. That's basically the question. The Double gives one the option of a super fast second shot...but a ping on reload.

    Now imagine it's 60 years ago...maybe 80 years ago...and You are in the middle of a herd of 100# tuskers...of course the goal is money at that point. More ivory = a better life. Right. I get that. So, two shots and vanish into the ether makes sense. Just blend into the scenery and vanish into the silence? Right. eXtractors...keeping it silent is a win. It keeps the hunter alive. It doesn't attract attention of critters.

    Ejectors? Somehow there's an amazing Hollywood dream of Extractors allowing that 2/10's of a second faster reload that saves a life...except...we don't live in that world anymore. We don't live that dream. The vast majority hunting is one and done. One shot, one animal down...fee paid. Rifles are accurate...ammunition is reliable...scopes hold their zero. Hunt is over and the wallet is $15k lighter (give or take).

    I have a rifle with Ejectors...and I wish it could be Extractors. I hate to say it, the need and day of the ejectors is sadly long behind us.

    :(
     

  17. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Hello everyone,

    If you read the excellent book:
    "African Rifles & Cartridges"
    by John "Pondoro" Taylor, you will want extractors.

    If you read the also excellent book:
    "Hunter" by J.A. Hunter, you will want ejectors.

    If you hunt in Africa one time with your double rifle, ejector or extractor design either one, you will experience many sleepless nights, wondering what you're going to sell, so that you can own more double rifles, while continuing to hunt in Africa.

    Regards,
    Velo Dog.
     
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  18. Heym 88

    Heym 88 AH Fanatic

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    yup..you can reload just as fast with xtractors if you practice, I like both designs.
     

  19. HeinrichH

    HeinrichH AH Enthusiast

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    Ive only got extractors in my double, but being in some real close situations in the past I can undoubtedly say, the ejectors is the better option. Reloading with a wounded buffalo at your feet feels like 5 minutes with extractors, and believe me you need that split second or 2 faster for those situations.

    The downfall to me with ejectors is, if the ejector goes faulty while you are loading quickly, you expect the shell to come out, but if it doesn't you will try stick a new round before realizing it because you are use to the barrel being empty, and that could turn out bad with dangerous game at close quarters...
     
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  20. 1dirthawker

    1dirthawker AH Enthusiast

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    velo dog,

    well said!
     
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