CZ 458 Lott Weight

[9412765]

Bone-stock, iron-sighted, CZ 550 American 458 Lott...opinions as to appropriateness of the weight of this rifle for the cartridge? I say this because it's pretty stout off the bench as im sighting in. I enjoy the thrill of shooting it, but it takes all my mental focus and I'm wiped after 5-10 shots. Not to mention, it rearranges EVERYTHING on the bench after every shot (I don't have a permanent bench, just a folding table) which gives me a good break to reset and I take a walk down range too between shots. I'm shooting the 550 Woodleigh at 2100. Recoil built quite a bit beyond that.

 

[Luvthunt]

Weigh is good with a 458 Lott. I mag Na ported mine it keeps the muzzle rise in better control.

 

[USMA84DAB]

9412765 -

My thoughts/impressions, for what they are worth (maybe not much)

1. You have shared nothing about your shooting/hunting experience. If the first rifle you work to develop loads is with the .458 Lott, then it would be nearly certain that you will be overwhelmed with the recoil. What is your prior recoil experience? Tough to coach a player you don't know.

2. When I walk friends or Clients along the recoil road, I always have them shoot first in the standing position to allow their entire body - not just their shoulder - to absorb the recoil of a .30-06, .35WAI or .375 Ruger. For them, this is a huge step up from 5.56 or .30-06, but because their entire body absorbs and flexes with the recoil impulse, they are surprised to still be alive after the shot, and figure out in about 15 seconds that they can handle this level of recoil. Shoot off of sticks, or build a standing bench.

3. Are you wearing a shoulder pad? 95% of men are recoil shy, but loathe to admit it for fear of appearing to be a sissy. Screw that! The mission is to accurately place rounds into the target - if a pad helps me accomplish that mission, I am wearing the sucker! I have a .416 Ruger that is stout for recoil, so I wear the pad. It bothers me more than a .495 A-Square that I had in the past. With the pad, I shot MOA with the rifle at 100 yards. I could not have lasted 5 shots and turned in the MOA group without the pad.

4. Gregor Woods' book rifles for Africa discusses ways to learn to cope with recoil.

5. Boddington and Woods both indicate that you will get more shots, and place them better, with a scope. If you simply want to hunt with irons sights that is perfectly fine, but you will lose 50% or more of your shooting opportunities. If you mount a scope on the rifle, it adds weight, which spreads out the recoil impulse.

6. Weight ameliorates the recoil impulse (the same force is there, just spread out as it shoves more weight back). The trade-off is that while hunting, you carry the rifle 99% of the time and shoot it 1% while charged up with adrenaline so you won't notice the recoil anyway. Each hunter must determine how much suck factor he is willing to accept through lugging a 10/12/14 pound rifle through the woods/veld all day. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (TANSTAAFL). Heavier is somewhat easier to hold steady and less responsive to swinging on a moving critter. 14 pounds of rifle will tone down the perceived recoil, but may wear your ass out and make the day of stalking marked drudgery. You have to determine where your Goldilocks ratio is. Probably this will only be discovered by taking the rifle out and actually hunting with it.

7. How fit are you? Can you lug a 10 pound rifle? is 13 pounds too much?

8. I have several "scout" rifles - .308WIN & .35WAI. I hunted with them for several deer seasons - stands and still hunting. I learned that I like lighter and shorter rifles as they carry easier and don't get snagged into briar limbs/vines as easily as the more common length rifles. However, I have failed to find a way to reliably attach the optic in a manner that withstands recoil. The Scout Rifle Study indicates that this is a hidden, but documented malady with the platform as well. AR-10s with 16" barrels are actually quite handy, if a bit portly at times. The point for both platforms is that I learned their shortcomings by USING them in the field. I recommend you do so as well.

9. A synthetic stock will absorb some of the recoil impulse as it flexes. Trade-off is it isn't pretty walnut. It is impervious to atmospheric changes. TANSTAAFL.

10. Perfect trigger control can be practiced on a lesser caliber rifle (hopefully identical to your dangerous game rifle so you learn one manual of arms) so you don't train yourself to fear the dangerous game rifle. 5-10 may be all you can tolerate at a shooting session, so fill in the practice with a .30-06.

11. Stock fit can make a HUGE difference. My Ruger Alaskan has the Hogue overmolded stock. It fits me perfectly - high & straight comb, length of pull on the money, the swell in the fore end helps me hold the front end down in recoil, the rubber overmold is grippy and makes it easier to hold on. The straight/target pistol grip facilitates pulling the rifle into the shoulder. Try some different stocks.

12. Get a HUGE recoil pad.

13. GET OFF THE BENCH! There are no benches in the veld/woods. After zeroing don't shoot off the bench!

14. The A-Square Coil Check stock is some times derided as "chunky", but it tamps down perceived recoil like a champ.

Have to get out to the shop. Hope these get you started.

 

[USMA84DAB]

One last thought - I recommend that you do NOT put a damned brake on or magna port the rifle. Your PH will detest you, your buddies will flee from you at the range.

I refuse to conduct firearms training for anyone that has a braked rifle. As I stand beside the shooter to guide him/protect safety on the range/catch him if he falls/keep the rifle pointed down range, I get the dog snot beat out of me from that damned brakes.

There is also the very real danger to eyesight from the jets of gas during a tense/fast moving hunting situation.

New shooters will retreat and stop shooting due to the fearsome noise. I have seen it repeatedly, particularly in females.

You may also want to be able to hear in your later years.

I know some guys think cutting holes in their barrel is the cat's meow, so rock on for them. As for me and my range, stay the hell away from me with that rifle!!!!

 

[machinistbutler]

My Cz 458 Lott isn't too bad off sticks. I did put the synthetic stock on it with a very soft pad.

I thought I would be smart and mounted a heavy 1-6 scope on it, which proceeded to bugger the rear ring. I run three rings on it now and it is good.

I have never shot it off a bench, I would off a standing bench, but a sitting bench I limit myself to the 375 H&H.

 

[Forrest Halley]

"My howitzer is not big enough. Please help me make it louder and more obnoxious." The petulant fool cried.

"Ahh yes we'll cut these silly looking ports in your barrel and all will be well in the land. You'll even have the range to yourself most days." The enabling and uncaring gunsmith replied.

Muzzle breaks/brakes are an annoyance most times. I have them mainly as suppressor adaptors on things I would never shoot without hearing protection and around folks not wearing hearing protection.

My .458 Lott has a big and hearty roar. It's a large bore rifle with a magnum powder charge. There is a big difference between it and a .45-70 in report. I respect that and I have no intention of changing it especially for the worse.

Wear a recoil pad and take breaks from the rifle. It probably is giving you a slight concussion during your session.

You are shooting the heaviest bullets you can find it would appear and at decent velocity. You might consider the construction of a practice load that has less recoil, but similar POI as your hunting load. Recognize the trajectory difference and learn the new impact as successful training, but keep the hunting trajectories in memory.

Enjoy.

 

[neckdeep]

My AHR custom weighs 8.8 with a Leica Tempus sight, never shot it off the bench but I can shoot it pretty well off sticks at 50 yards or so, recoil is stout with a 500 gr TSX at 2165 fps but tolerable. No reason to shoot the Lott off a bench, I am sure it will shoot MOB ( minute of Buffalo) and you can zero it in as you go off the sticks

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

My CZ 550 Lott is not all that bad off bench. It has an AHR #2 upgrade and decelerator pad and recoil reducer also installed by AHR.
It weighs 11.5 lbs with Talley rings and Leupold VX5 HD 1-5.
I am shooting factory Swift 500 gr Aframes.

 

[Hunter4752001]

Firstly, 458 Lott isn't a benchrest cartridge, so STOP shooting it from the bench. You'll only develop a bad flinch and the point of impact won't match shooting from field positions.

Do your sighting in and load development either from sticks or a standing rest. This allows your body to move with the recoil and more closely duplicates field conditions. Practice shooting technique with a smaller calibre and only fire a handful of 458 rounds per session for familiarity.

 

[gizmo]

Most of what I can tell you has been covered. Just to reenforce what others have said. Do not shoot it off the bench. Proper shooting stance and how you receive the recoil has 99% to do with it. When practicing with it you don’t have to shoot full bore loads. Shoot safe reduced loads and you can even fire reduced 458 Win loads out of it.

 

[gizmo]

Oh and a Dead mule can help also. For the record, a CZ 550 American Safari in 448 Lott is one of my top 3 most wanted rifles. I want it in the factory wood stock and all factory components. I can make some slight mods myself to make it how I want it. I have that rifle in 375. H&H and it is my favorite bolt gun and my 2nd favorite rifle over all out of my collection.

 

[WAB]

Guys, build a standing bench. That’s how the big doubles are regulated. It gives you bench steadiness from a standing position that allows your body to absorb the recoil. This is 100+ year old equipment/procedure and it works.

 

[Frederik]

As our ranges are limited here you either have to go to private property or shoot standing up from sticks. So building a bench to use standing up would be first prize but not so easy where we are.

I have however become accustomed to shoot my standard CZ550 Lott from the bench I know its going to be tough but by lifting the front bag nice and high (About 12" off the bench) I can sneak in my shoulder nicely behind the recoil pad. Only do able if you have aseat that can adjsut up and down. I do not fight the recoil and make sure your trigger hand elbow sits on top of something soft. The recoil will let your elbow drag on the table and if its a rough surface it hurst. Been there got the T-Shirt.

I expect the muzzle to rise and use my left hand to manipulate the rear soft bag to be spot on target.
I am also one of those who are addicted to recoil but it took me a while to get use to the Lott on the bench and figure out a system that works.

With my 1 MOA Trijicon SRO and working up a load with 500gr Woodleigh PP bullets I managed to shoot my test load of one of the loads in one hole at 50 meters in this way. I am also not loading my Lott to weatherby speed but fair speed of 2175fps with the load that punched one hole. Why chase more cause if it aint going to die at 2175fps it's not from this earth!

I also keep my session to a limit of about 15 shots in this way and if I want to shoot more then shoot off hand or from sticks.

I would not recommend it for anyone but if YOU are stuck to only use a convential bench try it get the front high up and get your shoulder in nice behind the recoil pad. Use a sissy pad if needed and wear good ear protection. The loud roar counts for about half the fear of big bores.

Currently my Lott without ammo weighs in at just 9.5 lbs and my 375 H&H scoped just under 10lbs it has thick barrel.

 

[Nhoro]

My CZ 550 in 458 Lott started out at about 9 1/4 lbs. I added lead weight to the stock cast in 458 win mag cases. This improved the balance and made the rifle more pleasant to shoot weighing around 10 lbs empty. The rifle is un-modified -so 25 " barrel and no scope. I fired it off the bench with a lead sled a few time and it was thoroughly unpleasant.

I use shooting sticks or a camera tripod as a rest for range work and practice quite a bit offhand. There is substantial recoil but it is manageable. I simply don't want to shoot it off the bench, even if you pay me. To be honest, the only reason to shoot a large bore off the bench is to produce a group that you can post on Facebook and boast about. Cant carry a bench in the field. So if you want to make holes in paper (A pleasurable pastime for sure) then use a .22 or a6.5 creedmore. Lower recoil, cheaper rounds. Then take the 458 Lott standing up.

I would also say only shoot the rifle until you feel discomfort. Longer gaps between shots helps. But stop before it hurts and dont force yourself to shoot. 2 or 3 shots per range trip is fine. Maybe you will get up to 8 or 10. I did 16 shots in under 30 mins once. It was a shooting exam and the adrenaline helped but it hurt.

 

[Johnny reb]

Bone-stock, iron-sighted, CZ 550 American 458 Lott...opinions as to appropriateness of the weight of this rifle for the cartridge? I say this because it's pretty stout off the bench as im sighting in. I enjoy the thrill of shooting it, but it takes all my mental focus and I'm wiped after 5-10 shots. Not to mention, it rearranges EVERYTHING on the bench after every shot (I don't have a permanent bench, just a folding table) which gives me a good break to reset and I take a walk down range too between shots. I'm shooting the 550 Woodleigh at 2100. Recoil built quite a bit beyond that.

The rifle weight is a very personal. what is right for me may not be for you. My Lott weighs 8lb 2oz. You may want to get a past recoil shield for when doing load work on a bench. Is this your first experience in calibre this size? Do to body position when shooting from a bench you will take more recoil than if standing. Is the bench the only way you shoot it?

 

[machinistbutler]

@9412765 would love to see a video of you shooting that Lott off a lightweight folding table.

Thanks for the smile , when you said it rearranged everything on the table I laughed so hard!

 

[postoak]

My .416 Rem Mag is 10.1 pounds empty. I think you want more than that for the Lott. I'd be thinking about 10.5 or 11.0 pounds. Are you putting a scope on it? You can control the weight some with scope choice. The scope I originally put on my rifle weighed 17 oz. and the rifle came to 10.5 pounds. I wanted lighter than that so found a used Redfield that was only 11 oz. and put that on. So you could go with a heavy scope.

I didn't see, did you say how much it weighs now?

 

[machinistbutler]

I put a razor gen 2e 1-6 on mine, nice scope, heavy at 21.5 oz. I had to put a third ring on it , with two it damaged a Warne qd ring. With three has been perfect.

The only issue I see with putting a heavy scope on a heavy recoil gun. Never had trouble with mounts on my 416 Rigby . The Lott is a different beast.