Cutting Edge solids for 30-06

Cervus elaphus

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Looking at the list of 30-06 reversible and solid bullets on offer from CE
100gr ESP Raptor - reversible to solid (can be used as hollow point)
130gr ESP Raptor - reversible to solid can be used as hollow point)
145gr ESP Raptor - reversible to solid (can be used as hollow point)
180gr Safari - solid
210gr Safari - solid

The only velocity I have is for the 210gr solid, 2678fps using Reloder 22. I would imagine the 100gr Raptor would be pretty wild !. I'm reading up on this caliber being used with solid bullets on small game. Any comments?
 
Gotta imagine the 100 gr bullet in a hot load would turn something inside out.

I’m curious to follow this thread; I wonder if the Barnes family of bullets would work essentially the same on smaller animals? What makes a cutting edge solid a better choice?
 
Gotta imagine the 100 gr bullet in a hot load would turn something inside out.

I’m curious to follow this thread; I wonder if the Barnes family of bullets would work essentially the same on smaller animals? What makes a cutting edge solid a better choice?
I'm curious to find out. The only ammo I'm biased towards is Norma which I've used without a fail or fault since the 1950's. CE have come up with something a bit different which has piqued my curiosity. I've never thought of using a solid in a 30-06 before.
 
Back when Zimbabwe was still Rhodesia , John Coleman ( a retired African professional hunter and my close friend ) used a .30-06 Springfield ( a re-barreled Mauser Oberndorf ) and hand loaded 220 grain Hornady round nosed steel jacketed solids to dispatch several African elephant bulls with brain shots .

The .30-06 Springfield and 180 - 220 grain solid bullets can be quite excellent for Africa’s “ Tiny ten “ . I have hunted countless Chinkara near Pakistan with a .30-06 Springfield ( a sporterized Springfield Model 1903 ) and hand loaded Woodleigh 220 grain round nosed steel jacketed solids . Quite satisfactory performance . Nonexistent meat damage .
 
ESP...... Enhanced System Projectile

I was on the early development of these bullets, and I have a love hate relationship with them, or some of them. There are a few that I really like a lot, and they work great as designed. I particularly like the .500 caliber 350 ESP, and have used it extensively on plains game, and even Australian buffalo, as a solid and a Raptor, at 2700-2800 fps in my 500 MDM, they are wicked. I like the 416 and 458 versions as well.

The first tests were with the 130 gr .308 caliber. When I received them for testing from CEB, I thought it would be fun to shoot them as a solid first, then recover those of course, and then turn around, shoot the same bullet again as a Raptor, I did this in 30/30, 308 Winchester, and 300 Winchester, it was a hoot.

The 130 gr bullet is a very good choice, decent solid and has a very good Nose Projection length an penetrates very well, although some less than a more serious .308 solid at 180 +. For those circumstances where one might encounter thick brush, the 130 ESP is an excellent choice, first shot as a Raptor, and if needed, second shots as solids to get through the brush better.

I have not worked with a 145 ESP .308.

And I have not tested the heavier weight CEBs in the .308s, but have tested some North Fork prototypes in 180, 200, and 220 in 308 Winchester and 300 Winchester, and they are incredible, and more than capable of taking elephant from any angle. The CEB versions would be the same. These .308 caliber solids can equal and exceed depth of penetration of their larger caliber cousins, in 416-458 and above.

The 100 ESP is a good Raptor, but not a good solid. The Nose Projection above the top band is way short and does not penetrate as deep as it could. But, the design of the ESP limits what you can do with 100 gr.

I asked Dan at CEB for a 100 Flat Base Raptor only bullet, and it is now my go to bullet in anything .308 caliber, including 300 BLK, 7.62X40, 308 Winchester, 300 Winchester, and even 30/30 taking the Talon Tip off. The 100 Flat Base Raptors are just wicked, and have been used on 100s of deer/pig, and even bear. All pass through, do not underestimate the destruction these bullets can cause, in addition to penetration.

In some calibers the ESPs can be a bitch to work with. They are not as easy to load as normal bullets, and much care had to be taken to get the weight correct, lower in terms of stability. They work best in faster twist rate barrels. I have not had too many issues with the 130 ESP, they do fine in 30/30s, but if your twist rate is 1:12 or slower, then running those with tips in rifles such as 308 might give you some stability issues. Without tip, they would be fine. Also, putting the solid end down in the case, you don't want to compress powder too much. Unlike a Flat base bullet, the solid ends have #13 Nose profiles, this pushes powder out and away from the bullet into the case wall, too much and it bulges the case easily.

Another really good solid I like is the 130 CEB Solid, its brass, 130 gr, Flat Base and matches POI very well in several of my 308 rifles. Nearly perfect in two shorter Winchester M70 guns, however, they will need to be Control Feed guns to function properly.

I love Solids. I find there are many reasons, 100s of them, to Have a Solid on hand, and Not One good Reason Not to. The ESPs in some cases provide the very best of both worlds, in one box.
 
ESP...... Enhanced System Projectile

I was on the early development of these bullets, and I have a love hate relationship with them, or some of them. There are a few that I really like a lot, and they work great as designed. I particularly like the .500 caliber 350 ESP, and have used it extensively on plains game, and even Australian buffalo, as a solid and a Raptor, at 2700-2800 fps in my 500 MDM, they are wicked. I like the 416 and 458 versions as well.

The first tests were with the 130 gr .308 caliber. When I received them for testing from CEB, I thought it would be fun to shoot them as a solid first, then recover those of course, and then turn around, shoot the same bullet again as a Raptor, I did this in 30/30, 308 Winchester, and 300 Winchester, it was a hoot.

The 130 gr bullet is a very good choice, decent solid and has a very good Nose Projection length an penetrates very well, although some less than a more serious .308 solid at 180 +. For those circumstances where one might encounter thick brush, the 130 ESP is an excellent choice, first shot as a Raptor, and if needed, second shots as solids to get through the brush better.

I have not worked with a 145 ESP .308.

And I have not tested the heavier weight CEBs in the .308s, but have tested some North Fork prototypes in 180, 200, and 220 in 308 Winchester and 300 Winchester, and they are incredible, and more than capable of taking elephant from any angle. The CEB versions would be the same. These .308 caliber solids can equal and exceed depth of penetration of their larger caliber cousins, in 416-458 and above.

The 100 ESP is a good Raptor, but not a good solid. The Nose Projection above the top band is way short and does not penetrate as deep as it could. But, the design of the ESP limits what you can do with 100 gr.

I asked Dan at CEB for a 100 Flat Base Raptor only bullet, and it is now my go to bullet in anything .308 caliber, including 300 BLK, 7.62X40, 308 Winchester, 300 Winchester, and even 30/30 taking the Talon Tip off. The 100 Flat Base Raptors are just wicked, and have been used on 100s of deer/pig, and even bear. All pass through, do not underestimate the destruction these bullets can cause, in addition to penetration.

In some calibers the ESPs can be a bitch to work with. They are not as easy to load as normal bullets, and much care had to be taken to get the weight correct, lower in terms of stability. They work best in faster twist rate barrels. I have not had too many issues with the 130 ESP, they do fine in 30/30s, but if your twist rate is 1:12 or slower, then running those with tips in rifles such as 308 might give you some stability issues. Without tip, they would be fine. Also, putting the solid end down in the case, you don't want to compress powder too much. Unlike a Flat base bullet, the solid ends have #13 Nose profiles, this pushes powder out and away from the bullet into the case wall, too much and it bulges the case easily.

Another really good solid I like is the 130 CEB Solid, its brass, 130 gr, Flat Base and matches POI very well in several of my 308 rifles. Nearly perfect in two shorter Winchester M70 guns, however, they will need to be Control Feed guns to function properly.

I love Solids. I find there are many reasons, 100s of them, to Have a Solid on hand, and Not One good Reason Not to. The ESPs in some cases provide the very best of both worlds, in one box.
Thanks for all that info, which was what I was wanting to know about solids and I have a new appreciation of them. The reason I posted was to find out if a lighter solid bullet could be used in a DG rifle like the .404J for small frame PG, pigs etc rather than an expander which would spoil meat on the way through. I have shot many deer with ex-military FMJs and if hit in the right place, saved a lot of venison for the pot. Thanks again for your report and testing.
 
Thanks for all that info, which was what I was wanting to know about solids and I have a new appreciation of them. The reason I posted was to find out if a lighter solid bullet could be used in a DG rifle like the .404J for small frame PG, pigs etc rather than an expander which would spoil meat on the way through. I have shot many deer with ex-military FMJs and if hit in the right place, saved a lot of venison for the pot. Thanks again for your report and testing.
Why a lighter solid? A solid drills a hole - lighter or heavier - it drills a hole. Heavier drills a deeper one.
 
Over the years, I've been caught twice without "solids" of some kind where it would have been "comforting" to have a few. So, when CEB came out with their flat nose solids in various calibers, I ALWAYS take at least 5 in whatever cal rifle(s) I'm taking over.

I've taken the 210gr .cal over in 308 Win and 30/06. I've only "tested" them in a couple of head of PG. Specifically, a couple of blue w/b and a couple of zebra. All purposely shot frontal chest, inside 100m just to see how deep they would penetrate and the internal organ damage. Unfortunately, all passed completely thru, end to end so never recovered one. The internal organ/tissue damage was vary similar to a TSX and the exit hole was just the same as the entrance.

Listen to Michael 458. He has absolute reams of documentation and photos of bullet tests of all types and calibers he's tested in his own indoor range with chronos at both ends and as about as uniform test media as possible.
 
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Pancho wrote on Safari Dave's profile.
Enjoyed reading your post again. Believe this is the 3rd time. I am scheduled to hunt w/ Legadema in Sep. Really looking forward to it.
check out our Buff hunt deal!
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shoot me a message for a good deal!
dogcat1 wrote on skydiver386's profile.
I would be interested in it if you pass. Please send me the info on the gun shop if you do not buy it. I have the needed ammo and brass.
Thanks,
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Jackal hunt on triggercam,

 
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