Copper prices increasing

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Newboomer, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Newboomer

    Newboomer GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Just read an interesting article in the newspaper this morning. It says copper prices will probably be jumping in price due to the demand for electric cars. Copper is used in the motor windings and wind turbines. Mfg demand is predicted to increase 2 to 3 million tons by 2040. Might be a good time to think about stocking up on copper bullets. Supplies could dwindle before long.
     

  2. JimP

    JimP AH Elite

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    When I was doing electrical work I would watch the copper prices go up and down and try to sell all of the scrap copper at the highest point. At one time it was approaching $4 a pound and then the bottom dropped out of it all the way down to around $1.60 a pound.

    If there is indeed a demand for more copper a few more mines will start putting out more of their ore instead of stockpiling it.
     
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  3. Rimbaud

    Rimbaud AH Senior Member

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    Copper is known as Dr Copper or the Metal w a Phd in the financial markets. Copper is a proxy for economic activity. Loads of debate about the state of global economies edging toward a recession or being saved from recession by central banks lowering interest rates (negative yields.) Hard to trade commodities - which are basically a trade off demand - so just think about buying what you need when prices are good because they go up and down and sideways.
     
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  4. shootist~

    shootist~ AH Senior Member

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    Politics - who's in power in DC -will always play the biggest role in that (bullet) supply and demand thing.
     

  5. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Back a couple of years ago when Obama had several agencies order millions of rounds of ammo we all thought it would be difficult if not impossible to acquire hunting ammunition or fodder for our MSR(s). Judging from the current availability our concerns were unwarranted.
     
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  6. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    Thanks for the tip , NewBoomer !
    I stockpiled on Northfork Solids for my new .405 Winchester .
    Also have at least 80 cutting edge monolithic meplat brass Solids in 300 grain weight for both my .375 HH Magnums .
    Will increase my supply :)
     

  7. Jaws

    Jaws AH Senior Member

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    The copper mining industry is a little more complicated than just producing more to meet the demand.
    The "stock piles" are different grade ores & typically blended with higher & lower Copper contents to provide a consistent feed into the solvent extraction process & ultimately end up into a Electro Winning tank house where the plating occurs.
    Unfortunately each "plant" is designed to consume a determined blend feed at a constant volume to remain in business. To simply increase production is not possible without upgrading your plant at a major cost, or reagent imbalance (additional cost) to consume the input. Feeding lower grades of ore increases cost of manufacturing & ultimately causes mines to shut down when the Copper price dips too low. Never mind quality issues. Consuming too much of the far les available high grade ore, reduces the life of mine.

    Your only solution to really increase output is to weigh up your options for an upgrade or risk investing into green fields which is a complicated & costly business altogether. Then you have to hope & pray the market doesn't drop below your manufacturing cost again.

    Copper prices over the recent past have been quite low in comparison to when the prices were almost double a few years back, we didn't see much of the price fluctuations in the ammunition prices.(besides that it only goes up over time) The reasons are numerous, though one of the reason is due to the relatively "small" consumption for the public ammunition production market where the offset will be traded at much higher margins & the fluctuations can be "absorbed" in comparison to the larger consuming markets directly experience the effects where every $ counts & the price reflects to the end user.

    I more rather have a problem with the quality of the Copper consumed to produce ammunition that could jeopardize us as hunters.
    Not all Copper are produced equally.
    Some current quality producers may opt for lower grade Copper to save or source from different regions /traders where certain elements like lead (Pb), Cobalt (Co), Iron (Fe), Sulphur (S) & silica (Si) might be more prevalent, but the price is "right" due to lower cost of logistics or other trade agreements.
    The copper may be 99.9% Cu and it gets worse as the percentage drops, these impurities / alloys affects the nature of Cu. The am elements tends to cause the Cu to be harder & brittle.
    I cannot comment on the ammunitions manufacturing end, I don't know if some ammunition manufacturers have a special alloy blend, but I did notice the oxidation patterns on recovered cups from a big and much debated brand on this forum... it turned brown like typical iron rust with a very small amount of green oxidation.
    This tells me that the material is definitely not quality or pure Copper & it wouldn't surprise me that the cost saving by "blending" or sourcing crap has already started. I also want to point to this as the primary reason for poor bonding & bullet failures under discussion.

    I hope the current quality manufacturers doesn't change their sources or grade of material to save cost.
     

  8. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019

  9. Aaron Nietfeld

    Aaron Nietfeld AH Fanatic

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    They are calling for a copper shortage in the coming years, and once the trade war ends, for prices to be rising higher.

    The sooner that happens, the sooner I can return to Africa!
     

  10. Bignut

    Bignut AH Senior Member

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    That friends is a load of quality information!
     

  11. Jaws

    Jaws AH Senior Member

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    Why would China hold out for prices to drop when they are:

    1: Producing their own commodities with Government supported mines all across Africa.
    2: It doesn't make commercial sense to slow down production / consumption due to high commodity prices.

    Rather worry why the Western & European investors are pulling out of Africa...the long term effect will show with the Eastern economy growing stronger & West /Euro growing weaker faster.
     

  12. 375 Ruger Fan

    375 Ruger Fan AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Looking at this chart, it looks like the big run up in copper price occurred around 2003-2005. From 2015 to present, prices have fluctuated but trending lower.

    upload_2019-9-13_6-15-16.png


    upload_2019-9-13_6-18-26.png
     

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