Controlled round feed for Dangerous Game

[CBH Australia]

Sako 85 is CRF

Nope only partially.....

I've read that before, bring out the popcorn and a wooden spoon.

 

[mark-hunter]

Hi boys, I am new to hunting.
What is better rifle for Africa? Push feed, or controlled round feed?



Thats a joke, dont answer!

Sako 85 does mimic CRF operation, and bolt removed from receiver can hold a cartridge in horizontal position.
But, it does not have long extractor claw, such as mauser 98.

The answer to this if Sako 85 is CRF or not, rests in individual perception or personal definition what CRF is. However, factory claims officially, that Sako 85 is CRF

 

[Marcos Rodriguez]

Sorry about to write so late, but...
The only real advantage of the controlled feeding over the push feeding, are for the handloaders, in the integrity of the case rim, not more than this
If you feed slowly, every system might to be feeding problems!... Loading faster, the push feed are more faster than the controlled
And both systems are extraction reliable if there are high quality (not microfusion nails, or some crap like this)
I ever love the mauser98 system, long extractor, CRF, strong action... but now, I prefer the fastest push feed action of my 91 model... 132 years old, and feed, fire, and extract so trusty as a new one!

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Nope only partially.....

False. Please elaborate..

Hi boys, I am new to hunting.
What is better rifle for Africa? Push feed, or controlled round feed?



Thats a joke, dont answer!

Sako 85 does mimic CRF operation, and bolt removed from receiver can hold a cartridge in horizontal position.
But, it does not have long extractor claw, such as mauser 98.

The answer to this if Sako 85 is CRF or not, rests in individual perception or personal definition what CRF is. However, factory claims officially, that Sako 85 is CRF

Perception or personal definition quite literally does not matter in this case. It has no plunger ejector and in addition the bolt face is not recessed. These two factors allow the rim to slide under the extractor during forward motion. The fact that it does not have the full length Mauser type extractor does not matter in the least.

This bolt face is not PF.. It IS CRF. It’s actually pretty amazing to me that this is still being debated..

 

[Bush Buck]

Regarding the Sako 85

I think of the Sako as a partial CRF too - but that's only in direct comparison to a well tuned mauser type action. The classic CRF action picks up and "controls" the cartridge much earlier in the bolt cycle. The bolt face grips the cartridge before it is chambered.
The 85 only picks it up when its heading into the chamber.

The 85 provides one of the biggest benefits of CRF - it reduces the risk of double feed.
I find the 85 to be adequate in this regard.
The ejection is the issue that requires careful attention as a DG rifle.

 

[BeeMaa]

I almost posted a reply on the Sako 85 being CRF. However, I will sit this one out and possibly learn something new.

 

[colorado]

False. Please elaborate..

Perception or personal definition quite literally does not matter in this case. It has no plunger ejector and in addition the bolt face is not recessed. These two factors allow the rim to slide under the extractor during forward motion. The fact that it does not have the full length Mauser type extractor does not matter in the least.
View attachment 542435
This bolt face is not PF.. It IS CRF. It’s actually pretty amazing to me that this is still being debated..

Agree 100%

 

[mark-hunter]

It’s actually pretty amazing to me that this is still being debated..

it is debated because some people think that only Mauser long extractor makes CRF action.

So, many will claim S85 is push feed.

I understand function of both systems (sako 85 and m98). But also I think that this debate is obsolete in this specific form s85 vs m98 - especially because it started long before appearance of sako 85.

 

[Inline6]

My 22 is is CRF...

 

[Gemsbok45]

I started out working for Remington. A very accurate out of the box Rifle. When hunting on my own for dangerous game I want a Model 70. When moving you can reload with a much more forgivable hinged floor plate. The average guy will never have a problem. I have seen the push feed not extract under pressure. Everybody needs to make their own choice. I made mine!

 

[colorado]

I have a late 60s vintage BDL in 270 that I killed 9 bears with dozens of elk and more deer and javelina than i can count. Absolutley reliable rifle. Never once did it fail to feed, fire or eject. I don't think they are as well made now. That being said when I bought a dedicated dangerous game rifle, I picked a CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery, had Wayne at AHR put on an M70 type 3 pos safety, single stage match trigger and straighten and fill the bolt. It needed a bit more work for it to function perfectly (magazine follower was machined for the fat 500 Jeffery cartridge). It's perfect now. Accurate, feeds and functions flawlessly and balanced like a fine shotgun. Both push feeds and CRFs will do the job, just make sure you have good ones and test the hell out of them.

 

[IvW]

Yip mag follower causes a lot of issues if not machined cirrectly

 

[colorado]

Yip mag follower causes a lot of issues if not machined cirrectly

Yes, I guess each part of a Mauser receiver should be machined for the exact cartridge it is made for, including the magazine and the follower. My gunsmith (Kevin Weaver who is awesome), looked at it and said he believed CZ didn't machine one specifically for the 500 Jeffery.

 

[IvW]

Yes, I guess each part of a Mauser receiver should be machined for the exact cartridge it is made for, including the magazine and the follower. My gunsmith (Kevin Weaver who is awesome), looked at it and said he believed CZ didn't machine one specifically for the 500 Jeffery.

Correct they did not also not in ZKk602 but it was never offered in that action

 

[fourfive8]

Always interesting, this age old question, CRF vs PF I also find the loyalties and rationalizations interesting. On one side of mouth some promote the double rifle as the ultimate DG tool while out the other side of mouth claim the push feed action and extraction/ejection designs have no place in the DG field. Huh?

As to the Sako 85… don’t some (maybe all) those have a high angle of ejection where the fired case can hit scope mounts and scope parts upon ejection? Also IIRC Winchester also made, for awhile, a M70 design very similar in function to the Sako 85. They called it a controlled round push feed. To my knowledge it did not have the same ejection geometry as the Sako 85 since it maintained a standard M70 two lug design and ejected fired cases on a normal, lower trajectory. The Sako 85 uses a three lug design with the extractor between two of the lugs… which may have led to the potential issue high ejection angle. A result similar to modifying a Remington 700 by adding a Sako /M16 style extractor. Contrasted to the Winchester M70 push feed which has the extractor claw in one of the lugs thus resulting in a lower, normal angle of extraction.

 

[IvW]

Huh? Serious dg rifles need to be rrue crf not wannabe crf.....no ph uses a 700 modified for dg nor sako 85.....always mauser or Zkk or cz....simple cause they work.....everytime....

Had a big cockup with a Sako 375 never again my first dg rifle was a m700.....piece of shit for dg......

 

[BeeMaa]

Huh? Serious dg rifles need to be rrue crf not wannabe crf.....no ph uses a 700 modified for dg nor sako 85.....always mauser or Zkk or cz....simple cause they work.....everytime....

Had a big cockup with a Sako 375 never again my first dg rifle was a m700.....piece of shit for dg......

Unless it's a Blaser R8 and the PH is @Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS...

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/blaser-r8-for-dangerous-game.53390/post-581040

 

[mark-hunter]

Had a big cockup with a Sako 375 never again my first dg rifle was a m700.....piece of shit for dg......

IvW, can you give more details on this?

 

[BeeMaa]

Huh? Serious dg rifles need to be rrue crf not wannabe crf.....no ph uses a 700 modified for dg nor sako 85.....always mauser or Zkk or cz....simple cause they work.....everytime....

Had a big cockup with a Sako 375 never again my first dg rifle was a m700.....piece of shit for dg......

In all seriousness, I'd like to know the percentage of CZ550/ZKK rifles that didn't need any work to operate properly. The number that left the factory that didn't work spawned an entire aftermarket and gunsmithing industry for more than 50 years. Or did you want to just quietly omit this fact?

I'm not trying to antagonize you. Just merely point out that the mighty ZKK CRF action has had faults. Faults that needed to be corrected or lives would be in danger. Same as any other action being used in a DG hunt.

I'm not one to say that one is better than the other, because each rifle is an individual. Repetition is the only way to know if it's reliable. Proper training of the hunter (or PH) and maintenance of the rifle are needed to be successful in the field.

 

[IvW]

In all seriousness, I'd like to know the percentage of CZ550/ZKK rifles that didn't need any work to operate properly. The number that left the factory that didn't work spawned an entire aftermarket and gunsmithing industry for more than 50 years. Or did you want to just quietly omit this fact?

I'm not trying to antagonize you. Just merely point out that the mighty ZKK CRF action has had faults. Faults that needed to be corrected or lives would be in danger. Same as any other action being used in a DG hunt.

I'm not one to say that one is better than the other, because each rifle is an individual. Repetition is the only way to know if it's reliable. Proper training of the hunter (or PH) and maintenance of the rifle are needed to be successful in the field.

Not ZKK actions cz yes of which I own none.....if you use a ZKK action to build a custom rifle obvioisly you use a competent gunsmith for the conversion....as I did when I got my 500 Jeff....never ever had any issues and I own and use extensively 3 ZKK rifles.....

Jaja R8 and 1 outfitter who uses one....who hunts how many elephant a year using it??

You own one and think it is the best thing since sliced bread??
If it was that good all would dump their doubles and bolts and buy R8 for DG backup.....

Not the old hands I can assure you....

I would never swop my ZKK602 500 Jeff for a R8 ever....