Client Rents Rifle, Client Damages Rifle or Scope, Who Should Be Responsible for Repair?

[pilar]

shoe on other foot guide or ph break your scope ?
I was on a elk hunt and on the 1st 1/2 day the guide and I where driving on a mountain road when he got distracted talking and ran into a ditch, and I banged my head on the windshield and scope on the truck dash bending the hell out of it , i think it scared the hell out of both us , the outfitter/ boss man was super POed with him and had him loan me a rifle for the hunt, and said that guide would be paying for the damage to the rifle and scope, at the end of the hunt he didn’t offer any apologies or accept my offer to split the scope cost.
I know accidents happen but if I dropped a rifle or did something stupid like have a car wreck and damage a rifle, scope , or other hunting equipment I would and have paid for the repair. ( i borrowed / was testing out a spotting scope and had it on a window mount and didn’t realize how heavy it was, and it broke my window and hit the corrugated two track , he was a good client and laughed when I handed him the asking price and said “ fast pay makes fast friends “ before telling him I had broken the lense and was waiting for it to be replaced)

 

[RIGBY]

Shouldnt you be advertising this?



Ehmmm.....

This one perhaps?
Web page, and forum screen shots. @MBIZI SAFARIS

They had some interesting offers past seasons, I hope they will have in the future as well.
By interesting I mean affordable for me, thats how I remembered this detail.


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Ha! Candidly, I wasn’t previously aware of the association. It is a fantastic opportunity for hunters who may not yet own a Rigby to use one in the field.

 

[mark-hunter]

Ha! Candidly, I wasn’t previously aware of the association. It is a fantastic opportunity for hunters who may not yet own a Rigby to use one in the field.

I am always willing to be a test "guinea pig" for Rigby rifles, should the opportunity presents itself.

We should work out this in the future!

 

[CBH Australia]

Ha! Candidly, I wasn’t previously aware of the association. It is a fantastic opportunity for hunters who may not yet own a Rigby to use one in the field.

Exactly what I was thinking when I saw your earlier post.
Imagine that going on Safari and test driving a Rigby.
All due care taken of course but using a classic rifle in Africa must be a dream come true for many.

 

[spike.t]

Also remember that in some countries here it would be very difficult to get a rifle repaired..if not impossible....at least correctly.....

 

[MS 9x56]

I was on a hunt once and a client had rented a rifle from the outfitter/PH. Very early in the trip, the client dropped the rifle on a stalk and the scope banged off a rock, denting the scope. From what I understand the client apologized, the PH grumbled a little but said it was alright.

However, later I had overheard some of the PHs annoyed that the client hadn't offered to pay for the scope or at least to send it in for repair.

I have two separate feelings on this.

From an empathetic point of view where I take very good care of my things, I would personally feel bad about damaging someone else's things and would probably want to make it right at least to some degree.

From a logical and business point of view: Two things come to mind. One, this is part of the reason people pay to rent a rifle, to offset the risk of damage to a rifle and scope they have to pay for. Two, I frequently read guides/ph and outfitters say the reason they charge what they charge for rifle and ammo rental is because of the risk of damage and increased upkeep on their heavily used rifles.

What are your thoughts?

My thought is I wont hunt with people who cant hold onto their rifle. If they are that careless they could endanger the lives of all in the hunting party. If you trip and fall is one thing but seriously dropped the rifle? Short answer yes he should at least pay to have it repaired.

 

[CJW]

I don't think I've ever just dropped a gun. But I have been a klutz a time or two in life and stumbled or flat out fallen. With my luck, if someone handed me their expensive rifle and scope to use, those two occurrences would probably meet. That said, a scratch on a rifle will likely garner no money from me and I don't see how I could actually break a rifle. A fall like that I would probably have bigger worries. Secondly, an outfitter probably shouldn't put $$$ optics on a rental rifle either. If they do, a deposit or some sort of contract should be worked out prior if they expect the client to pay for all damages.

That said, client and outfitter should have it worked out ahead of time should damage happen. Starting with an honest man's model 70 or 602 and a nice Leupold or other good warrantied scope would be a good way to keep things looking safari like and monetarily responsible for both parties.

 

[Hogpatrol]

My 2¢. Whether or not one is renting, liability for damage to a rented rifle/scope should be spelled out in the contract before arriving. Aside that, to the extent of damaged rifles, personal or rental, I'd say that comes under the cost of doing business.

 

[DieJager]

I get traveling light but I simply can't imagine going on a safari and renting a rifle you have no feel for what-so-ever. If you're a solid rifleman, can you make dang near anything work, yes, but why would you want to, especially on dangerous game. Do you think right before the samurai went into battle some equipment manager fella was chucking swords out to the guys saying "hey use this one"

Off topic:
I understand the sentiment. That said for my upcoming hunt I needed multiple permits a lot of phone calls and emails. Also needed to move my hunt forward because of bureaucratic procedures that didn't align with their schedule.
It cost me almost 7 months of getting the right permits and subsequently the approval from the airline. ( I'm from Europe) . No specialized services for me that could help out.

My first two hunts in Africa I used a rental. I'm not certain that on ordinary PG animals in Africa I'm going to do this whole procedure again. A gun is a gun for me, just a tool.

Also some countries you cannot legally take your gun with you like for instance Zimbabwe because of EU sanctions.

Rental just makes sense.

On topic:
You break it you buy it

 

[Philip Glass]

I was on a hunt once and a client had rented a rifle from the outfitter/PH. Very early in the trip, the client dropped the rifle on a stalk and the scope banged off a rock, denting the scope. From what I understand the client apologized, the PH grumbled a little but said it was alright.

However, later I had overheard some of the PHs annoyed that the client hadn't offered to pay for the scope or at least to send it in for repair.

I have two separate feelings on this.

From an empathetic point of view where I take very good care of my things, I would personally feel bad about damaging someone else's things and would probably want to make it right at least to some degree.

From a logical and business point of view: Two things come to mind. One, this is part of the reason people pay to rent a rifle, to offset the risk of damage to a rifle and scope they have to pay for. Two, I frequently read guides/ph and outfitters say the reason they charge what they charge for rifle and ammo rental is because of the risk of damage and increased upkeep on their heavily used rifles.

What are your thoughts?

I have a simple solution yet one that seems to be often overlooked. TAKE YOUR OWN RIFLE ON SAFARI!

 

[Hunt anything]

I believe the closest I’ve ever come to dropping a rifle was when either the sling swivel broke or the actual sling broke. I was able to catch the rifle befit it hit the ground both times.

 

[Paul K]

I pay for any and all damage I cause.

It depends on how you were raised.

My father always told me " You break it ,you fix it, period.

Paul

 

[MS 9x56]

My father taught me you break it you fix or replace it.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I believe the closest I’ve ever come to dropping a rifle was when either the sling swivel broke or the actual sling broke. I was able to catch the rifle befit it hit the ground both times.

I have fallen on my rifle many times. But historically I hunted very rough country in bad conditions.

That rifle took a beating over the years.

Look closely and you may be able to see three deep gouges in the cheek piece. And this is the second stock. First one broke in half courtesy of horse wreck. Africa hunting is not nearly as "rigorous" because I'm not nearly as rigorous. Still, I would be disinclined to accept a fancy/expensive rental rifle. I'd be happy enough to hunt with something stainless in black plastic. Less to worry about in the unlikely event shit happens. As I've said before, I come to Africa to hunt, not put on a style show or pretend I'm Stewart Granger.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Ethics aside, a rental is a business arrangement and it would probably be best to have those questions answered ahead of time.

It seems like it would be easy enough to clarify that the rifle rental fee covers normal wear but that the client would be responsible for any excessive damage caused by their own negligence or accident.

I think gentlemen’s agreements are better saved for friends and receipts are better for customers in any business transaction. Nobody gets burned and nobody gets surprised.

 

['68boy]

I broke a girls heart one time and didn't bother to pay for the damage. I was glad I did it!

 

[gbflyer]

If you have the correct scope, Nightforce, Trijicon, S&B...a drop is not a problem, just adds character. If you drop the guides Vortex, Leupold or Swaro, you probably owe him a scope repair.

 

[Paul K]

I broke a girls heart one time and didn't bother to pay for the damage. I was glad I did it!

I tried to break-up with a girl in 1969. Now 57 years later,I wish I would have.

Paul

 

[BlueFlyer]

If you rent a car the contract is very clear as to who is responsible for any damage. Pardon my ignorance but is there a contract when you rent a rifle? Or is it a hand shake deal?

 

[coyote wacker]

With what direction people have made a change in responiblty of damage. I would not allow a client to use one of my rifle-scope with out a contract. Stipulating damage they cause during there use of a rifle-scope is there responiblty to pay for damage. Even pictures before the hunt and after.

I've had hunters show up at camp and not have the proper equipment to spend the day in the woods hunting, from guns to boots. Then ask me if I had the equipment for them to use. First couple years I lent my equipment out. Then I got smart and told them to go to the nearest town 50 miles away and get when is needed. Had one young guy not bring proper cold weather gear, but was to cheep to go to town and get a good coat. After 4 days he packed up and left, couldn't take the cold and didn't want to get a coat or even some Heat Packs to help keep himself warm.