CEB 30 cal plains game?

[Brandon.Gleason]

Morning, all.

Continuing planning for plains game this fall. Primary rifle will be a 300 win mag. I've played with both TTSX's in 165 and 180gr, as well as A-Frames in 180 and 200gr, all resulting in more than acceptable groups. Has anyone worked with and/or used any of CEB's offerings in a 30 cal on plains game?

 

[Pheroze]

Morning, all.

Continuing planning for plains game this fall. Primary rifle will be a 300 win mag. I've played with both TTSX's in 165 and 180gr, as well as A-Frames in 180 and 200gr, all resulting in more than acceptable groups. Has anyone worked with and/or used any of CEB's offerings in a 30 cal on plains game?

I have not used them but I pestered Cutting Edge in the persistent small dog kinda style I have. This is what they told me when I asked about raptors vs maximus for my 308 Norma Mag:

"The Raptors work completely different but equally as well especially on very tough plains game. We like to think of a Raptor having blades verses petals on the Maximus. The blades shear off and remain flat and not curled like the petals on an MTH or Maximus. That causes them to radiate out away from the main would channel in a star pattern causing a massive amount of trauma in a larger area internally but do not penetrate as deep. Typically on large animals and using either a brass or copper .308 145-150gr Raptor you can expect the blades to pass through the first lung and almost through the second lung in a Kudu size animal and the base will pass through producing a small exit hole. With the Maximus the petals will remain closer to the main would channel but making it much larger than a traditional expanding bullet and will produce a much larger exit hole in the same size animal.

Both produce a lot of trauma but in my opinion the lighter Raptor bullet still produce the most trauma of any bullet on the market including the Maximus. The advantage of the Maximus is they are heavier like most people “think” they need to kill an animal effectively and due to them being one piece instead of two they are a lot more economical. Both are very high trauma producing bullets in their own way and you cannot make a bad choice."

 

[Brandon.Gleason]

Thanks, Pheroze. I'd class myself (for no particular reason) in the group that thinks the 145/150's they offer in the Raptor are on the light end. Might have to place an order and give them a try on paper at least.

 

[Bos en Dal SAFARIS]

The bullets you tested are propably some of the most prefered hunting bullets in Africa. If Barnes or Swifts perform well, i would not even bother looking further.

Enjoy the planning and setting up for the hunt!!
My personal best
Gerrit

 

[BeeMaa]

Wouldn't it be easier to use the TTSX or SAF's you mentioned?
I know we are all looking for the next "new best thing", but at what cost?

Personally, I'd put more money into what I know already works.
Especially with the proven track record of the bullets you mentioned.

 

[Philip Glass]

Morning, all.

Continuing planning for plains game this fall. Primary rifle will be a 300 win mag. I've played with both TTSX's in 165 and 180gr, as well as A-Frames in 180 and 200gr, all resulting in more than acceptable groups. Has anyone worked with and/or used any of CEB's offerings in a 30 cal on plains game?

I vote for 180g TTSX. That is if I get a vote in the matter

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Morning, all.

Continuing planning for plains game this fall. Primary rifle will be a 300 win mag. I've played with both TTSX's in 165 and 180gr, as well as A-Frames in 180 and 200gr, all resulting in more than acceptable groups. Has anyone worked with and/or used any of CEB's offerings in a 30 cal on plains game?

This is a good question for @michael458.

 

[michael458]

This is a good question for @michael458.

Good Morning all. Here is what I know about .308 caliber Raptors. First, the information obtained by
@Pheroze is good, and factual. Here in South Carolina and my purposes for .308 caliber include the following, 300 BLK, 7.62X40, 308 Winchester and 300 Winchester. For deer, pigs and bear there has never been a need or requirement for anything further than the 100 Flat Base Brass Raptor. I had Dan redesign the 100 ESP into a Flat Base Raptor which is better suited for the 300 BLK + all the rest. This bullet turns the 300 BLK into a serious cartridge. Many of us have used the 300 BLK and the 7.62X40 for our kids and grandkids over the years with this bullet combination. In 300 BLK it has accounted for many many deer, hogs and even bear by our youth. ALL, repeat this, ALL, including a 300 lb Black bear have been DRT on the spot. Another thing, no bullets recovered, all exits.

Stepping up to 308 Winchester, same story, has accounted now for at least a couple of hundred deer and such over the last few years, all with the 100 Raptor. No deer has run further than 5 steps, most of the rest are DRT. Also, no bullets recovered, all exit. I regularly keep my local guys and friends supplied with loads for deer season. Every single man states no more running and chasing, and tracking required, and to a man every one states "I never Seen Anything Like It"..........

I don't hunt deer and I have retired from hunting myself.

My late friend and hunting partner would take his 30/06 to Africa for plains game. I always loaded the 100 ESP Raptor at that time for him. It was running 3250 fps in his 22 inch gun. He would do a lot of culling with it and had incredible reports on everything from impala to wildebeest. No bullets recoverded, and rave reviews from the PH as well. Now when Lou would go, it was anything from 20-30 animals with this load.

I have loads in 300 Winchester that runs 3600 fps in 22 inch guns, I have been looking for some of the locals to give it a go on some deer, but no takers yet. And none of these guys have 300s........I have one 26 inch test rifle that I do pressures with and I have run the 100 FB Raptor to over 3950 fps.

In all the test work done depth of penetration has only been equaled by 200 gr Swift A Frames, the 100 Raptor out penetrates anything up to that point, and even then, the Swift is only equal to. Destruction of tissue far exceeds any conventional bullet, these things are just wicked.

Continuing planning for plains game this fall. Primary rifle will be a 300 win mag

I don't ever recall hunting with .308 caliber in Africa, I have used 338 and 358 as mediums many times in the past, I wish I would have had Raptors for those back in the day, I am quite sure I would have been far more successful in my own endeavors.

Today, if I were going with the 300 Winchester, with a variety of plains game, and considering up to eland, I might up my game to a 130 Raptor, I like the brass personally and have a great deal of experience with brass Raptors. Even up to eland, you don't need more than 130 gr Raptor. I will guarantee it will outperform all comers in .308 caliber, both in terminal performance and terminal penetration. Hell, the 100 outperforms everything so its pretty easy for me to suggest the 130 but only for depth of penetration, and considering possible eland. Now I would prefer .338 or .358 minimum for that mission, but if you are going to use .308 that would be the ticket.

For the "Naysayers", fine, you don't understand how these bullets work and of course you never been to the field with them either. I have, both, I have used the Barnes, Nosler, Woodleigh, Hornady, Swifts and more. And, nothing at all wrong with any of them. I used Swifts forever in everything from .308 to .458 with incredible success, if it were not for the Raptors, I would probably be using Swift and Barnes, like many of the rest of you. But sorry, there is a Raptor now, and it is a whole different story.

Recently I found my stock of 100 Raptors has dwindled and I have 2000 300 BLK pieces to load, 500 pieces of 7.62X40 and 1500 pieces of 308 Winchester to load. The bulk of this will be 100 FB Raptors, of which I have 3000 on order. Ask me now what I believe to be the very best bullet for terminal effect is.......

Good Luck, if you want a good load for 300 Winchester and the 130 gr Raptor ask me, I don't have a full workup, just a good load with IMR 4064 that I use, with pressure data. Oh, just checked data, and I do have a IMR 4350 load too, but prefer the IMR 4064 Load......
Michael

 

[Pheroze]

if I were going with the 300 Winchester, with a variety of plains game, and considering up to eland, I might up my game to a 130 Raptor,

Thanks for the info! It's good to get this type of information out there to develop confidence in the bullet.

Would you expect similar results on an eland with the 149gr brass ESP raptor with the 300 or does it depend on the kind of velocity you achieve with the 130gr?

Thanks

 

[michael458]

Would you expect similar results on an eland with the 149gr brass ESP raptor with the 300 or does it depend on the kind of velocity you achieve with the 130gr?

I did not even know there was a 149 ESP? But yes, basic results are the same, Raptors behave the same in all calibers and weights. They LOVE velocity, the more velocity, the more everything, trauma and penetration. In my opinion the 130 would do anything a 149 or 150 would do, and because of the added velocity you will get more trauma, and you already get all the penetration you can use......

In the 26 inch test gun I mentioned above I am getting 3488 fps out of the 130 Raptor at 59000 PSI. I have not tried it in the shorter rifle.

 

[Pheroze]

I did not even know there was a 149 ESP? But yes, basic results are the same, Raptors behave the same in all calibers and weights. They LOVE velocity, the more velocity, the more everything, trauma and penetration. In my opinion the 130 would do anything a 149 or 150 would do, and because of the added velocity you will get more trauma, and you already get all the penetration you can use......

In the 26 inch test gun I mentioned above I am getting 3488 fps out of the 130 Raptor at 59000 PSI. I have not tried it in the shorter rifle.

Thank you, very interesting information.

 

[Brandon.Gleason]

I appreciate all of the comments, gentlemen. I'm going to order a box to play around with and see how they group.
Once I establish what's shooting best, I'll speak with Limcroma regarding their experiences and suggestions.

 

[michael458]

This is from a Father in NC giving a report with his Son, which is 8 yrs old............Ok, 20 ft, that is pretty close to DRT.

The 100 gr raptor over 20.1 grains of Lil gun worked quite well. 300+ Lb boar taken at 70 yards and the base was a complete pass through including smashing a scapula. The bear went no more than 20 feet and was dead when we got to him. Thanks for the advice fro the 100 grain Raptor, they work well on whatever they hit My son who shot it is in the picture and is actually sitting on the bear, he was so excited I couldn’t get him off it.

This from a friend of mine that took another youth hunting...............

Took a young man named Hunter hunting today and he killed his first deer with a 308 Winchester Model 70 and a CEB 100 grain Raptor. Made a high shoulder shot at 70 yards and dropped the deer in its tracks. Did not recover any blades and the base exited. Happy young man!

This one from 3 friends of mine that went to TX on a trophy deer hunt..................All these guys have been shooting deer for several years in 308s I loaded for them with 100 Raptors, this was nothing new to them............

I had three of my Chaps take of too Texas first of December for Big Trophy Deer. The three of them used 308 Winchesters, of some sort or another. They all used the 100 Raptor, my load I gave them………

They all took one big deer each. Then they all shot assorted does, they also shot hogs and javelinas. All with the 100 Raptor. One of the big trophy deer went 5 yards and fell over stone cold dead. All the rest was less than a step or two, and many DRT on the spot. Hogs and javelinas the same, DRT or a step or two at most. My buddy Kyle lined up 3 javelina in a row, broadside, killed all three with one shot, ONE RAPTOR BULLET, all three were DRT on the spot, with the One Shot. Full penetration, bullet exited 3rd javelina…..


And another................

Took my buddy Lawson who is 8 years old deer hunting today. He was shooting my 7.62X40 with a 100 grain CEB RAPTOR. Shot a mature doe at 112 yards dead center of the shoulders. Deer dropped in its tracks!!!!! Base exited the opposite shoulder. Pretty good performance for both an 8 year old and a 100 grain 308 bullet.


Another.................

7.62X40 has done it again. My buddy Will is here hunting with his boys and I let Will use my 7.62X40 to hunt deer with. He fell in love with the little gun with suppressor on it. Late yesterday Will shot a pretty 5 point buck with it at about 50 yards using the little 100 grain Raptor. He shot the deer quartering to him and the first shot hit a limb. The deer just stood they wondering what that crack was. Will shot again and this time hit the deer behind the shoulder at a steep quartering angle. Now with most calibers and bullets this would have been a long track. The deer jumped turned around and fell dead. The bullet did what it does and there were two blade exits one on each side of ribcage. The base exited the opposite ham low in the leg. Huge hole in ham because the base broke the leg bone in half. Way more performance than you would think with such a little bullet.


I was told this, I did not see this show or know anything about it.........

Last night stopped by a friends house he had a program on called “Bear Whisper” with Blane Anthony is the host…CEB is a sponsor…he showed video of a CEB shot in gel…he says CEB bullets are the most human bullet made and will use no other…he shot in Alaska a black bear with a AR in 300 BO and a “Raptor”… DRT…

Another.................

I have an area on the farm that always seems to have a big deer. I noticed that there were more tracks and signs of activity in this area again this year. I wanted to try the 300 Blackout on something besides paper for a change. I used the rifle I set up first for just supersonic loads with 19.0gr of H110 and the original 100gr Raptor. I shot the deer slightly quartering away at 60yds. The bullet went in behind the left shoulder and exited center of the right shoulder. The top of the heart was gone and the lungs looked like jello run thru a blender. This deer weighed just over 200lbs live weight. I’m sold on this little bullet.

A friend of mine and this is one of his girls, using some loads I gave them..............

Syd shot this 200lb hog tonight at 70 yards in the shoulder with the 300 blackout Raptor. He bled like crazy and went about 15 yards.

BTW, this was my last order in January 2019 100 Raptors, 2500............

And this is just examples of what I have been told about the Raptors in .308s........... I have only shot a few foxes around the house with 300 BLK and all those are DRT, regardless of where they are hit, most shot at night. I am saving my for the upcoming Zombie Apocalypse! HEH HEH..........

 

[Aaron N]

Great information!

Do the petals sheering off of the raptors create any excess meat damage? I know for Africa we don’t worry about it, but I’m thinking of trying some for deer/moose/elk here in Canada. I’d be looking at .270/7x57/.308/.300H&H/.375H&H

Also, is there a reason some Raptors are copper and others brass? And it also looks like some have drive bands, and others don’t.

 

[Red Leg]

Other than grenades and 155mm artillery, I don't have much use for shrapnel. I can't think of any reason to switch from from the well proven .300 loads you already know work well in your rifle to go and play around with these things on your first African hunt.

 

[Tanks]

One thing I'd make sure is the twist rate of your firearm barrel is fast enough for the CEB raptors. Most require 1:10.

 

[michael458]

Do the petals sheering off of the raptors create any excess meat damage?

Blades, not petals. Petals peel, Blades slice and dice........FYI..............

Most of the time blades will shear after 1.5-2 inches inside animal tissue, at times this happens on the entry side and will blow a bigger hole on entry than exit. Exit will be caliber size. Blades continue to move forward inside the chest cavity, slice and dice and destroy vessels, organ tissue and whatever they contact. Most of the time these blades are kept inside the chest cavity and do not exit with smaller calibers. Larger caliber blades, such as .458 caliber + can exit broadside 150 lb or so animals. Shoulder shot animals will get some damage at least on entry side........

Also, is there a reason some Raptors are copper and others brass? And it also looks like some have drive bands, and others don’t.

Brass used is 360 brass and has a lead content. Some states, such as CA have banned any bullets with lead. Some people like copper, some brass. I like the brass Raptors and have worked mostly with those, in fact bands and many of the brass bullets were designed here. Copper is fine, copper Raptors work the same way as the brass Raptors from all that have been tested here. If there is a choice for me, I will prefer the Brass Raptors and Flat Base.

 

[Aaron N]

Blades, not petals. Petals peel, Blades slice and dice........FYI..............

Most of the time blades will shear after 1.5-2 inches inside animal tissue, at times this happens on the entry side and will blow a bigger hole on entry than exit. Exit will be caliber size. Blades continue to move forward inside the chest cavity, slice and dice and destroy vessels, organ tissue and whatever they contact. Most of the time these blades are kept inside the chest cavity and do not exit with smaller calibers. Larger caliber blades, such as .458 caliber + can exit broadside 150 lb or so animals. Shoulder shot animals will get some damage at least on entry side........


Brass used is 360 brass and has a lead content. Some states, such as CA have banned any bullets with lead. Some people like copper, some brass. I like the brass Raptors and have worked mostly with those, in fact bands and many of the brass bullets were designed here. Copper is fine, copper Raptors work the same way as the brass Raptors from all that have been tested here. If there is a choice for me, I will prefer the Brass Raptors and Flat Base.

Thanks @michael458

Ive read many of your posts here, and thank you for all the information you’ve been able to pass on!

Have you by chance worked with CEB on the Maximus? Would you choose a Raptor over them?

 

[Sarg]

Thanks for posting @michael458, might try those in my BLK & 510WSM (like your .500 SS B&M) to, I couldn't get the Raptor to shoot well in my 338/06 & very expensive here in NZ & we have to get them by hand (no shipping) from Aussie .

To the OP I think the 200gr Swift A frame is the go in the 300Win in Africa, the TBBC is also a very good bullet, the 180gr will do it, just the 200gr will do a bit more !

 

[michael458]

Have you by chance worked with CEB on the Maximus? Would you choose a Raptor over them?

I have a 358 MGP, small .358 cartridge made from 6.8 SPC. With its limited case capacity you look for lighter .358 bullets. I really like the 150 CEB Raptor in .358 caliber, it is devastating to say the least in larger 358s like 358 STA and 358 RUM. However, it is brass, and tipped it is very long for the smaller case. CEB makes a 160 Maximus that actually works perfectly in the cartridge and rifle. We ended up cutting the 150 Raptor down to 125 gr and it worked very well, but the 160 Maximus you did nothing with it, being copper and being a bit different profile and no talon tip.

Short story, I found the Maximus very good, it was very destructive, great penetration and worked as advertised. I would very gladly use the Maximus, if a Brass Raptor was not available........................

To the OP I think the 200gr Swift A frame is the go in the 300Win in Africa, the TBBC is also a very good bullet, the 180gr will do it, just the 200gr will do a bit more !

I have used the 200 Swift A in Africa on various plains game, it is a very excellent Conventional Premium bullet. It is the only .308 caliber bullet I have tested here that can EQUAL the depth of penetration of the 100 FB Raptor! It cannot of course equal the Trauma inflicted.