Cape buffalo scrum cap or old warrior mounts

[375Fox]

Not Germany though right?
I’m talking about the Germans I have met and hunted with. They all wanted to shoot old worn animals. Full price. That is my experience.

You are wanting to argue

I’ve hunted Austria, Spain, Sweden, France, Poland, and Romania. You are equally wanting to argue. Americans go to one type of outfitter. Europeans hunting Namibia often seem to gravitate towards lower cost shorter hunts.

 

[Russ16]

I think you can appreciate both and old warrior specimen as well as an exceptional genetic specimen. It doesn’t have to one or the other. At least that’s how I feel.

It is somewhat species specific. A species in an area with a lot of predators that has survived I have particular appreciation for. Not all species are as targeted or live in areas where survival is as difficult.

I certainly pride age and battle scars more n a Cape buffalo than a klipspringer. But in both cases I would like a fully mature animal.

 

[dchum]

I’ve hunted Austria, Spain, Sweden, France, Poland, and Romania. You are equally wanting to argue. Americans go to one type of outfitter. Europeans hunting Namibia often seem to gravitate towards lower cost shorter hunts.

That’s a long way to say “no I haven’t hunted in Germany” haha

Just sharing my experience my man. Mini trappe also said his German clients “go crazy” for “broken horn animals and scrum cap buff” to a friend of mine while he was his PH… and that’s in Uganda and tanznaia. No lower cost hunts there.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Every time I see one on this forum from Caprivi I always ask it was shot on exportable trophy quota or own-use non-exportable quota. Somehow I never receive an answer. That makes me think they are shot on non-exportable quota. It’s a very unique trophy when it’s a discounted trophy fee. I think a lot less hunters are wiling to shoot them at full price than say they want one.

I would likely only shoot a broken horn buff at a discount. They don’t appeal to me in the same way they do to others… With all due respect.

To each their own…

 

[Sabre]

Not Germany though right?
I’m talking about the Germans I have met and hunted with. They all wanted to shoot old worn animals. Full price. That is MY experience.

And I was just adding a different point of view to @Sabre comment tha “Nobody” is clambering for a nubbed oryx when I have literally seen some one clambering for one

You are wanting to argue

I think you should start an outfitting company where you sell hunts for African animals that are all worn down to "scrum cap" level trophies.

Make sure to sell them for full price or above market trophy price. Then come back and let everyone know how that business goes.

If you start as a billionaire, I'm sure you will be a millionaire in no time.

 

[dchum]

I think you should start an outfitting company where you sell hunts for African animals that are all worn down to "scrum cap" level trophies.

Make sure to sell them for full price or above market trophy price. Then come back and let everyone know how that business goes.

If you start as a billionaire, I'm sure you will be a millionaire in no time.

One can only dream.

 

[375Fox]

I think you should start an outfitting company where you sell hunts for African animals that are all worn down to "scrum cap" level trophies.

Make sure to sell them for full price or above market trophy price. Then come back and let everyone know how that business goes.

If you start as a billionaire, I'm sure you will be a millionaire in no time.

This is a serious comment, but I think if there was really that much demand for scrum caps South African game farmers would be darting and cutting the horns off management bulls.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I'm happy for anyone that wants to shoot one. It's your money and if you're happy, I'm happy for you. But for me personally, I don't get the appeal. It feels like weird marketing hype to me. It would make sense if it was heavily discounted. But at full price or even a premium price, it seems silly to me. We don't apply this same metric to any other animal. No one is clambering to pay full price or extra to shoot a gemsbok with two horns broken down to nubs. You could insert any animal into that last sentence. Only buffalo get the marketing hype of it being the world's best to shoot a completely broken to the bases "trophy".

Not to sound like a hypocrite, because I have shot, 2 Broken off at the skull fallow bucks and 1 broken off at the skull Red Stag, at extreme discounts. Lest someone find the video and blast me for it! These were offered after I booked and not in lieu of my primary animals.

 

[dchum]

Not to sound like a hypocrite, because I have shot, 2 Broken off at the skull fallow bucks and 1 broken off at the skull Red Stag, at extreme discounts. Lest someone find the video and blast me for it! These were offered after I booked and not in lieu of my primary animals.

Interesting even on antlered animals! As they would just grow them back next season. (Obviously)

Guess they needed to get rid of some!

 

[375Fox]

Interesting even on antlered animals! As they would just grow them back next season. (Obviously)

Guess they needed to get rid of some!

They say it doesn’t grow back correctly when it’s broken at the skull. It’s not just a broken horn. I’ve got the same discounts in New Zealand.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

They say it doesn’t grow back correctly when it’s broken at the skull. It’s not just a broken horn. I’ve got the same discounts in New Zealand.

Correct. It rips out of the skull. In the case of one of the Fallow Bucks, it grew a deadly spike that was injuring and killing other fallow bucks and Stags when they fight.,,

 

[dchum]

They say it doesn’t grow back correctly when it’s broken at the skull. It’s not just a broken horn. I’ve got the same discounts in New Zealand.

Ahh I see, an injured pedicle.

 

[Sabre]

I've experienced the same. From what I've seen it's pedicle involvement that makes the difference, which makes sense. And sometimes it can look like it's broken above the pedicle but a "shard" breaks off deeper than it looks and the next year it grows very funky sometimes dangerous antler on that side.

There is also an increased risk of brain abscess syndrome when this happens. Which just supports taking them out that same year as well.

 

[Javaman]

I passed a trophy scrum cap bull last year. PH insisted it was the trophy of a lifetime … Wasn’t my cup of tea. I get shooting the super old former-warriors but wasn’t excited about it on the wall.

 

[matt vejar]

This pic is for FTRAVATO- you can balance anything on these metal stands. It’s the drill hole into the skull that is crucial. Anyways I had the high school metal shop make me about 40 over the years to mount my skulls . $5 bucks for smalls and $10 for large, and they painted them!

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I've experienced the same. From what I've seen it's pedicle involvement that makes the difference, which makes sense. And sometimes it can look like it's broken above the pedicle but a "shard" breaks off deeper than it looks and the next year it grows very funky sometimes dangerous antler on that side.

There is also an increased risk of brain abscess syndrome when this happens. Which just supports taking them out that same year as well.

 

[Russ16]

This is a serious comment, but I think if there was really that much demand for scrum caps South African game farmers would be darting and cutting the horns off management bulls.

I think the people interested in scrum caps are not interested in fenced areas. The whole idea is thinking about how those horns were broken off fighting over cows and the scars from a life living in a wild place. They’re likely the very people turned off by the idea of paying by the inch.

I’m sure some would hunt broken horned animals for a discount but that different than the ones that value broken horned animals.

 

[Red Leg]

I have hunted a great deal in Europe, particularly Germany and Austria. I think the discussion is missing the point of much of the non-trophy take in both countries. Traditionally, hunting is not considered "sport" in the English sense of the word. Hunting is a form of management. Thus, on a well managed revier (lease or concession) animals that show poor genetics tend to be first on the cull list. This is particularly popular with roe deer which can show many non-typical characteristics. Second, are those of great age, that are past or passing their breeding age. Many of these can be magnificent typical trophies. Broken antlered deer or stags are rarely taken because it is difficult to judge the class of the trophy. An exception would be a stag with permanent damage to a base.

I find it somewhat difficult to imagine a German or Austrian being excited over a broken horned oryx. Not saying it doesn't happen, but such an animal doesn't really fit the hunter as conservationist tradition. On the other hand, were it discounted, it might be of interest to anyone.

Very old animals would be of interest to the typical middle European hunter. That is a hunting ethic that I adopted way back in the seventies when as a young army officer, I helped mange the shooting plan on a large revier in the Spessart Mountains. To me, and to most European hunters that I have known, age is more important than an extra .5 cm. Hence, a scrum cap might very well be of interest to a European. However, I rather expect most, if paying a full trophy fee while taking what is likely their one and only buffalo, would much rather take an old bull that looks like a cape buffalo.

 

[vati]

I find it somewhat difficult to imagine a German or Austrian being excited over a broken horned oryx. Not saying it doesn't happen, but such an animal doesn't really fit the hunter as conservationist tradition. On the other hand, were it discounted, it might be of interest to anyone.

Very old animals would be of interest to the typical middle European hunter. That is a hunting ethic that I adopted way back in the seventies when as a young army officer, I helped mange the shooting plan on a large revier in the Spessart Mountains. To me, and to most European hunters that I have known, age is more important than an extra .5 cm. Hence, a scrum cap might very well be of interest to a European. However, I rather expect most, if paying a full trophy fee while taking what is likely their one and only buffalo, would much rather take an old bull that looks like a cape buffalo.

On my mother's side, almost all members of my large family hunt. My great-grandfather was already a passionate hunter. The family lives in southern Germany. I, however, have lived and hunted in southern Africa for decades.
It's true that for the vast majority of German hunters, an old, and possibly abnormal, trophy is far more interesting. For example, my first oryx antelope, old and with a broken horn, meant a great deal to me.

And indeed, an ancient buffalo, even a scrum cap, is far more valuable to me than a younger buffalo with even a magnificent trophy. In 50 years of hunting, I have never once experienced paying less for a broken trophy. Not in Europe, not in Africa.

 

[HookMeUpII]

I'm happy for anyone that wants to shoot one. It's your money and if you're happy, I'm happy for you. But for me personally, I don't get the appeal. It feels like weird marketing hype to me. It would make sense if it was heavily discounted. But at full price or even a premium price, it seems silly to me. We don't apply this same metric to any other animal. No one is clambering to pay full price or extra to shoot a gemsbok with two horns broken down to nubs. You could insert any animal into that last sentence. Only buffalo get the marketing hype of it being the world's best to shoot a completely broken to the bases "trophy".

To each their own I suppose. All that matters really is how you look at it when you see it on the wall or table. If you like ones with deep, long drops in the horns, that's fine. Maybe you're someone who likes an old gray in the face bull with broken horns.

First off, it seems that they aren't that easy to find. I know someone on here posted a photo report from a country that was closed to buffalo hunting and the amount of old broken scrum caps and super old horns was more than I'd ever imagine. I think it was Kenya or Uganda? Yet, when you look at open hunting areas in Zim, Tanzania, etc. it doesn't seem like there are that many. Maybe they all get shot? I wonder on that one. I'd love to know the answer.

My next quest will definitely be buffalo. I honestly don't know how I'd feel if I had the opportunity at a broken down old bull. I want to say that I am going with the animal that 1) looks appealing to me and 2) gives me an opportunity. I can't say I'd spend 10 straight days tracking one, single, scrum cap buffalo and then pass up 2-3 shooters in the meantime.