Buffalo load in Double Rifle

Glenn Slaven

Silver supporter
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
338
Reaction score
537
Location
Baytown
Media
41
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA
I have a .470 NE Chapuis that I have been very happy with. As I will be hunting in 2022 for cape buff I will have time to practice and work up a load. The PH I’m going with is absolutely in love with the Barnes TSX. I am working up a load at the moment and used the Barnes data. Found the most accurate load (both barrels in same hole at 50 yards, but 4” low) is on the lower side of the chart. 500 gr TSX with 87 gr IMR4831. When I start going up in charge the rounds start to spread but no more than 2-3” apart. The 93 grains is right at 2000 FPS.

It looks like the 87 grains is roughly 3800 ft/lbs, the 93 gr is 4400 ft/lbs. Is the 3800 ft/lbs good or go with a load that has more energy but doesn’t put in same hole.

I’m taking a scoped .470 Capstick as a backup gun or in case we can’t get in close enough to us a DR.
 

cal pappas

Contributor
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
335
Reaction score
741
Media
70
Hunting reports
Africa
4
The kill area on a side shot buffalo is pretty large and one does not need minute of angle grouping. Either of your loads will work so use what you shoot the best. Which one you choose, the best of luck to you and I hope to see some photos.
 

Glenn Slaven

Silver supporter
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
338
Reaction score
537
Location
Baytown
Media
41
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA
Sounds good. I appreciate the response and will go forward and practice a lot.
 

cal pappas

Contributor
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
335
Reaction score
741
Media
70
Hunting reports
Africa
4
I have pulled a few chains on the internet by stating buffalo are not all that bad and hard to kill. Yes, some sad cases of fatalities have happened but the percentage is very, very low when one looks to the number of buffalo hunted each year for the past 150 years. With a good bullet, I would not hesitate to go after a buffalo with a .30-06. I would wager most of the stories of charges and how the buffalo absorbed a dozen shots in the "boiler room" (Capstick) are stretching the truth for self glorification or readership numbers. Use what is best for you and you'll come home with a trophy and a lifetime memory.
 

kurpfalzjäger

AH enthusiast
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
441
Reaction score
647
Media
9
I have pulled a few chains on the internet by stating buffalo are not all that bad and hard to kill. Yes, some sad cases of fatalities have happened but the percentage is very, very low when one looks to the number of buffalo hunted each year for the past 150 years. With a good bullet, I would not hesitate to go after a buffalo with a .30-06. I would wager most of the stories of charges and how the buffalo absorbed a dozen shots in the "boiler room" (Capstick) are stretching the truth for self glorification or readership numbers. Use what is best for you and you'll come home with a trophy and a lifetime memory.

I shot about 30 buffaloes worldwide and therefore I have a different opinion about the buffalo hunting. A buffalo is hard to kill , and I would never try to shot it with the cartridge 30-06. The shot placement is not somewhere around but a shot on the right place , and there we come to the limits of the double rifles if not all conditions for a good shot placement are available.
 

IvW

AH legend
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
3,655
Reaction score
7,256
Location
South Africa
Media
62
Articles
3
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
BASA, CHASA
Hunted
South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Namibia,Zambia
I have a .470 NE Chapuis that I have been very happy with. As I will be hunting in 2022 for cape buff I will have time to practice and work up a load. The PH I’m going with is absolutely in love with the Barnes TSX. I am working up a load at the moment and used the Barnes data. Found the most accurate load (both barrels in same hole at 50 yards, but 4” low) is on the lower side of the chart. 500 gr TSX with 87 gr IMR4831. When I start going up in charge the rounds start to spread but no more than 2-3” apart. The 93 grains is right at 2000 FPS.

It looks like the 87 grains is roughly 3800 ft/lbs, the 93 gr is 4400 ft/lbs. Is the 3800 ft/lbs good or go with a load that has more energy but doesn’t put in same hole.

I’m taking a scoped .470 Capstick as a backup gun or in case we can’t get in close enough to us a DR.

Does the PH use a 470NE loaded with 500gr bullets or a bolt action loaded at higher velocity?

With lower than 200 fps I am not sure the TSX will perform as intended. What is the speed with the 87gr load if 93gr gives is right at 200fps?

What load was the rifle regulated for? I would recommend using Norma loaded with Woodies for the 470 NE on buffalo if it regulates of course.

My experience has been that TSX perform better at higher velocity.
 

1dirthawker

AH fanatic
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
691
Reaction score
1,308
Media
13
Articles
2
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
When I start going up in charge the rounds start to spread but no more than 2-3” apart. The 93 grains is right at 2000 FPS.

With lower than 200 fps I am not sure the TSX will perform as intended.

as IVW noted, i would be reluctant to use a triple shock bullet that STARTS at only 2000 fps. i suspect that impact velocities will be 1-200 fps below that.

most bullets do not work well below 2000 fps unless designed for that velocity (like woodleigh bullets) that said, i agree with IVW i would be concerned about those bullets working properly.
 

spike.t

Sponsor
Since 2013
AH ambassador
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
10,530
Reaction score
13,416
Website
www.takerireservezambia.com
Media
337
Articles
8
Hunting reports
Africa
3
Member of
sci int, basc,wpaz
Hunted
zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe,Mozambique ,hungary, france, england

zephyr

AH enthusiast
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
321
Reaction score
303
Location
Vermont
Media
9
Hunting reports
Africa
2
After checking the Barnes #4 loading manual I'm puzzled as to why they are running their loads so slow.. A 470NE should be generating around of 5000 ft/lbs of energy which equates to at least 2100fps..
 

Red Leg

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH ambassador
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
6,730
Reaction score
19,777
Location
Texas Hill Country
Media
285
Articles
5
Hunting reports
Africa
2
USA/Canada
5
Mex/S.Amer
1
Europe
3
Member of
SCI DSC life memberships / NRA Patron Life
Hunted
Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique, Spain, US (15 states)
I would not poke a buffalo with less than 4000 four pounds at the muzzle and velocity north of 2000. As others have noted, the TSX family needs a bit of velocity. Buffalo are easy to kill until they aren’t. A perfect shot where it counts and he will die quickly. A bit off (seems to happen fairly often with doubles, open sites, and folks inexperienced in using them) and everyone can have a long eventful day. Yes a lot of buffalo were killed with the 30-06 between the wars - and a lot were wounded and lost. It was less an ethical or financial issue in those days and the literature of the period is replete with examples.
 

Glenn Slaven

Silver supporter
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
338
Reaction score
537
Location
Baytown
Media
41
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA
I’m thinking of giving the Woodleighs I have a try and see how they shoot. I think I would be more confident and comfortable with them, as long as they regulate well. It’s not like they aren’t a proven round.

The gun was regulate with Federal ammo, and I think it was the old bear claw but I’m not 100%. I’ll check when I get home and see.

The PH carries a .458 bolt gun and also has a .375 HH scoped that he has one of the boys carry as well.
 

CAustin

Bronze supporter
AH ambassador
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
14,498
Reaction score
11,854
Media
258
Hunting reports
Africa
7
Member of
Courtney Hunting Club, NRA Life Member, SCI Kansas City Chapter
Hunted
South Africa, KwaZulu Natal, Kalahari, Northwest, Limpopo, Gauteng, APNR Kruger Area. USA Georgia, South Carolina, Arkansas, New Mexico, North Carolina and Texas
I have a .470 NE Chapuis that I have been very happy with. As I will be hunting in 2022 for cape buff I will have time to practice and work up a load. The PH I’m going with is absolutely in love with the Barnes TSX. I am working up a load at the moment and used the Barnes data. Found the most accurate load (both barrels in same hole at 50 yards, but 4” low) is on the lower side of the chart. 500 gr TSX with 87 gr IMR4831. When I start going up in charge the rounds start to spread but no more than 2-3” apart. The 93 grains is right at 2000 FPS.

It looks like the 87 grains is roughly 3800 ft/lbs, the 93 gr is 4400 ft/lbs. Is the 3800 ft/lbs good or go with a load that has more energy but doesn’t put in same hole.

I’m taking a scoped .470 Capstick as a backup gun or in case we can’t get in close enough to us a DR.

Glenn have you tried Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Bear Claws in it yet?
 

Glenn Slaven

Silver supporter
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
338
Reaction score
537
Location
Baytown
Media
41
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA
Glenn have you tried Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Bear Claws in it yet?
Not yet. Was hoping to find a load that worked without having to spend $275 per box. I may have to buy it, see how it shoots and then practice with home rolled.
 

spike.t

Sponsor
Since 2013
AH ambassador
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
10,530
Reaction score
13,416
Website
www.takerireservezambia.com
Media
337
Articles
8
Hunting reports
Africa
3
Member of
sci int, basc,wpaz
Hunted
zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe,Mozambique ,hungary, france, england
Not yet. Was hoping to find a load that worked without having to spend $275 per box. I may have to buy it, see how it shoots and then practice with home rolled.

Seems the logical thing to do.... Buy a box....bearclaws are good
 

spike.t

Sponsor
Since 2013
AH ambassador
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
10,530
Reaction score
13,416
Website
www.takerireservezambia.com
Media
337
Articles
8
Hunting reports
Africa
3
Member of
sci int, basc,wpaz
Hunted
zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe,Mozambique ,hungary, france, england
I know it's expensive but maybe if you can also buy a box of federal loaded with woodleigh softs just to see....they would probably be my choice in a 470
 

CAustin

Bronze supporter
AH ambassador
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
14,498
Reaction score
11,854
Media
258
Hunting reports
Africa
7
Member of
Courtney Hunting Club, NRA Life Member, SCI Kansas City Chapter
Hunted
South Africa, KwaZulu Natal, Kalahari, Northwest, Limpopo, Gauteng, APNR Kruger Area. USA Georgia, South Carolina, Arkansas, New Mexico, North Carolina and Texas
Not yet. Was hoping to find a load that worked without having to spend $275 per box. I may have to buy it, see how it shoots and then practice with home rolled.
Next time we are deer camp we need to bring the 470s and practice
 

Bruce

AH elite
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
1,223
Reaction score
979
Location
South Africa
Media
59
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SAGA/ Cape Hunters/ SA Hunters Association
Hunted
Namibia/Zimbabwe/Zambia/ South Africa/ Botswana/ Tanzania
Good luck to you, Sir, with hunting Cape Buff with 30-06, regardless of bullet type. You will need some serious back up if you attempted that... And then it doesn't count to say you have no problem to use a 30-06 for the job!!
There is no doubt, that with perfect shot placement a buff will fall to this caliber, BUT......
There is a reason for African countries putting a minimum caliber for DG... This is way above your 30-06 caliber.
 

Glenn Slaven

Silver supporter
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
338
Reaction score
537
Location
Baytown
Media
41
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA
I know it's expensive but maybe if you can also buy a box of federal loaded with woodleigh softs just to see....they would probably be my choice in a 470
Yes, that’s a good point. Couple boxes won’t break the bank. I don’t know how anyone that doesn’t reload is able to practice unless they are extremely wealthy.
 

IvW

AH legend
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
3,655
Reaction score
7,256
Location
South Africa
Media
62
Articles
3
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
BASA, CHASA
Hunted
South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Namibia,Zambia
or Norma.....
 

Glenn Slaven

Silver supporter
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
338
Reaction score
537
Location
Baytown
Media
41
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA
So I looked and it is regulated for Federal Weldcore SPs. It appears Federal no longer makes that load.
It’s frustrating bc I have a load that shoots solids on top of each other at 50 yards. Change to SP, opens up. I guess that’s part of the intrigue and mystery of a double.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
37,721
Messages
721,674
Members
67,513
Latest member
Andreastvu
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

pam308 wrote on TOBY458's profile.
Just saw your listing for a winchester 70 458. Is it still for sale? I want it!!! pam308
flatwater bill wrote on john stroud's profile.
Leopard Legend....................Hi John.............I see that you have not visited AH in awhile. Hope all is well. I am looking for a hunt in Namibia..............would like to ask a few questions about your hunt.............all the best..............................Bill
Cervus elaphus wrote on Bob Nelson 35Whelen's profile.
Hi Bob, how's things going in Wyong?. Down your way a couple of years back but haven't been in NSW since Ebor for the fishing. just getting over some nasty storms up here in Qld, seeing the sun for the first time in a few days. I'm going to NZ in the spring and hope to clean up a few buns while there and perhaps shake the spiders out of my old .303LE (currently owned by my BIL). Cheers Brian
A couple pictures of the sable i chased for miles in Mozambique, Coutada 9!! We finally caught up to him and I had the trophy of a lifetime. Mokore Safaris, Doug Duckworth PH
sable Coutada 9.JPG
sable 2 - Coutada 9.JPG
Safari Dave wrote on egrmpty507's profile.
Did you purchase your hunt at a US SCI fundraiser?
 
Top