Blood Lions MSNBC

[Bhfs300]

I heard about this this morning it is on MSNBC tonight at 10 EST and again at 11 EST. I have watch about ten minutes I think we need to watch it.

 

[BWH]

The fact that it is on msnbc, means I won't watch. For every twit that calls them blood lions, there are probably 10+ African villagers wishing the lion would be shot. Personally, I'm in no market for a lion.... So having hunted in Africa, I consider myself an unbiased party. My 2 cents....

 

[siml]

It's going to be aired this week in SA, will watch it, just to be able to argue against it..

 

[thi9elsp]

Watching it now. Simon - like you, I want to know what is being said and how it is being said like

 

[JimP]

I watched it and have varying opinions on it. I don't like the idea that there are game ranches that are raising lions just to be shot and personally think that the guy at at the Safari Club convention in Vegas made some stupid comments about the game ranch lions having better mains and hides due to the fact that they don't have to fend with other lions and animals for food, perhaps he was a plant just to say what he said. Then there was the game rancher that told them that he was going to kill them if they didn't sign a affidavit stating what their film was going to be used for.

I actually do think that they made some valid points but being a hunter I can see the other side of things where a lot of non hunters can't.

 

[BRICKBURN]

................
I actually do think that they made some valid points but being a hunter I can see the other side of things where a lot of non hunters can't.

Since I could not watch this thing. What were those valid points?

 

[Bhfs300]

I watched it twice and some of it kind of hit home.
Last fall after I had my list filled we went to a animal park at one of the hunting places and I was so pumped about this that it was allmost cooler than the safari.
I thought it was so great now I am not so sure?

 

[Bhfs300]

JimP

I looked and the guy in Vegas is one of the top guys at Hunting Legends. He wasn't a plant.

Tom

 

[JimP]

Since I could not watch this thing. What were those valid points?

Most of the show was about raising lions in a confined environment, taking cubs away from their mothers at 10 day to a couple of weeks then raising them only for the purpose of hunting them. They also talked about the price and time frame of lion hunts where the "canned hunt" with farm raised lions would only be for 3 or 4 days where a actual hunt for a wild animal would be a week to 2 weeks along with the cost of the hunts.

I will agree that most of the show was anti hunting for any wild game animal but they did make me think of what is happening with the fact that there are farm raised lions and actually other animals that they are releasing for a hunter to come out and shoot.

On a side note I do know that most of the hunting in South Africa is actually high fence hunts but most of the areas are also large enough that the animals are actually wild and not just farmed raised to let out into the wild for someone to harvest.

 

[JimP]

JimP

I looked and the guy in Vegas is one of the top guys at Hunting Legends. He wasn't a plant.

Tom

I was just guessing about him. From what he stated I just couldn't understand a hunter actually saying what he said. It made so much of a impression on me that I don't even remember just what it was but it made me wonder about him.

 

[Bhfs300]

Brickburn

I just looked it up since I copied it. If you have Directtv it will be on 356 MSNBC at 8:00 pm Friday and then again Sunday at 6:00 pm I think that is mountain std time?

I was just trying to let people see it.

Tom

 

[BRICKBURN]

Brickburn

I just looked it up since I copied it. If you have Directtv it will be on 356 MSNBC at 8:00 pm Friday and then again Sunday at 6:00 pm I think that is mountain std time?

I was just trying to let people see it.

Tom

Works for me.

 

[BWH]

Not taking a side.... Not to go on tangent. But in Texas there is no hullabaloo about game ranches as small as 100 acres high fenced with exotics bought at livestock auction. For yuppies to shoot on corporate weekend hunt. Axis, blackbuck, elk, stag, kudu, gemsbok, zebra, etc.... You name it.... They got it!

 

[thi9elsp]

The guy at SCI that was talking was not a strong communicator. I just thought, geez. None of his points justified raising lions for hunting. It is a commercial business. I am fine with hunters hunting the lions in this way, just don't get it mixed up with conservation.

Yes, the show was mostly about don't hunt. And, unfortunately, too many videos of lions struggling after the shot. I've had animals still moving after the first shot. But, those images will not play well with the non-hunting community.

In the end, it is a South Africa issue. If it continues to be legal, then call it a commercial operation. Don't call it conservation.

 

[ChasingHemingway]

I have been debating hunting lion for some of these reasons. Would love to hunt lion, but something in my gut doesn't feel right unless it is free range and I know the cost associated with hunting free range lion. I am conflicted as it wouldn't bother me to hunt kudu or even buffalo high fenced on a large property in SA.

dt

 

[BRICKBURN]

......................
In the end, it is a South Africa issue. If it continues to be legal, then call it a commercial operation. Don't call it conservation.

As with anything else the consumers will still impact the industry.

...................... If it continues to be legal, then call it a commercial operation. Don't call it conservation.

The conservation aspect is indirect:
Redirecting hunting demand from Wild Lions
Maintaining land in a wild state, not an overgrazed cattle operation supports a range of wildlife.

 

[BRICKBURN]

............... I am conflicted as it wouldn't bother me to hunt kudu or even buffalo high fenced on a large property in SA.

dt

I think many people are conflicted.
What is the difference between Pheasant and Lion?
Both raised and released for hunting.
(by the way I'm not conflict free)

 

[johnnyblues]

I can understand both sides, I really do. As someone who really doesn't like fences I have to consider several things. If as mentioned we can shoot exotic game, birds even kudu and others I personally would and hope to one day ( if still available) have no problem hunting an animal who can kill me in seconds under a fence. Of course if I could afford it I would do it in the wild. I would sacrifice mane quality for the experience. Now all that being said I just returned from Namibia where I shot several plains game. My zebra, and oryx was taken in a fenced 8000 acre area. My Eland was taken on a 11,000 acre ranch. I also took my kudu/diker free range. I can tell you all my trophies were hard earned and if I didn't know about the fence I d swear they were free range. My point being hunting under a fence in large areas is as challenging as anything I have ever hunted.

 

[BRICKBURN]

...... I thought it was so great now I am not so sure?View attachment 49645

Bhfs300, It was great.
It just feels different with some further knowledge. Sorry, if you felt duped.
The "petting encounters" are one more way to attract people and make money.

When I first found that the game I could hunt was available for purchase at an Auction I was very put off.
Were they domesticated? Tame? What the heck happened to "wild africa"?

Then I found out about "fences".
Where I live it is illegal to hunt game behind a fence or over bait. (save for bears)

I had to reconcile the realities of my home hunting experiences with this new culture and country.
As part of that process I spent 10 days studying in Professional Hunting School in RSA to understand the law, the animals, and how to hunt, etc. I learned a lot and continue to learn.
This course explained that the local laws and property rights are the basis of the reality on the ground. It makes sense once you knew what the laws were.


I figured out I was concerned about "Boma" (fish in a barrel) hunts or truly "put and take" hunting. As many of my fellow countrymen are.
Media hype on "canned" hunting got everyone's ire up. ie. Drugged Lions being released moments before they were shot., etc etc. The unsuspecting hunter not knowing the difference.
Shooting drugged animals is not hunting.


I made my own decision about where and what I would hunt only after exhaustive research.
Fences were eliminated by being on a large enough property that the animal could evade me and thus fences would not come into direct play.

For example, I just hunted Roosevelt Sable in an area without a fence in sight (or existence) that was about as remote and "wild" as you can get in Niassa Province in Northern Mozambique. I also chased Bushbuck for four days with a bow in a fenced property in the Eastern Cape.
Both hunts were incredibly challenging and both species were naturally occurring and self sustaining.
The fenced property was large enough and with the natural cover that the Bushbuck escaped me with impunity many times. I encountered the fence once at the entrance.
In the end I used a rifle on both hunts and took my trophies. Both trophies were taken under two hundred yards. The Sable were actually found in the same area I had seen them earlier in the day. (GPS location, never mind the PH's knew their habits. We were hunting on "Sable Road")
They are habitual.
The Bushbuck Ram I took, I had not seen in the previous four days and I had seen plenty of others. I only had one other ram that was found in the same vicinity/locale on that property during my hunt.
Both the Bushbuck and the Sable were wild, they just had different addresses.


I have watched the "wild lion" debate and I get tired of the propaganda.
There are very few places that actually do tracking or calling hunts for "wild" Lions.
Most "wild" hunts are baited, even old "Cecil".

If the Landowner/Concession holder feeds the "wild" Lions year round are they wild?

The Lion hunt story: You magically, through incredible skill and stalking prowess sneak up on the pride on a fresh kill.

The reality: You are brought round the back way to the feeding spot where your PH was radioed that the carcass was dropped and the assistant watched the Lion pride move in to the fresh offering. Your PH got the urgent radio call just before you rushed over to the area where a lion had been finally been sighted.

The absence of a fence makes you believe they are wild. They run away right?
Ring the dinner bell tomorrow at 14:00 and see what happens.
There are no pens or cages and no proof they are fed regularly and just like the "petting encounter" your view would change if you knew the entire story.


The moral of the story for me: Know what you are really buying and from whom and make your own decision.

 

[Bhfs300]

Thanks Brickburn

That day my PH and I sat for a half hour so I could get a picture with the baby white tiger. I took a picture of him and sent it to his wife and she said he never let her do something like that.

We got to go to the back of the zoo? And see the white tigers, white lions, normal tigers and lions probably because he was with me.

At that time I was so pumped about it.

Tom