Big Game in 9.3 questions

[Fryeguy]

For the guys who have used the 9.3 in Africa, shooting 286 bullets with Big Game powder. Have you guys had any issues at all with higher temps and powder sensitivity? While I am not at the level that John Barsness went to, I also do not want to push my luck. I also worked up my load in cooler temps, and don’t want to get to Africa and with hot ammo cause any issues. This is my first use of ball powder, I usually avoid it. I cannot see anything about it be temperature stable like varget and some of the others. It seems as though my rifle liked the heavier charges. It just kept getting tighter and tighter groups! Speeds didn’t seem to change much in my last jump but the group sure was amazing. Just looking for some general guidance from guys who have used it when it wasn’t cool outside.

 

[wswolf]

In the 9.3x66/370 SAKO I use 68 gn of Big Game and 215 primers behind a 286 Nosler for close to 2500 fps. Have had no measurable velocity increase at temps up to 90 F.
In the 9.3x62 I use 66 gn and a 210 primer for 2485 fps (22" barrel) but have not tried it at high temps.
Barsness reports that seems to be as temperature stable as the Hodgdon Extreme powders.

 

[John Wasmuth]

It gets just as hot in central Texas as it does over there, 104 is a 104 no matter where you are. I have had to trouble with Big Game at higher temps using a modest load of 62 to 64 grains with LRP and 286 gr bullets. But always start lower than listed maximum loads.

 

[Puddle]

I've chatted with John Barsness about Big Game in the 9.3.

I have a working 300 grain A-Frame load using RL-15 to an average MV of 2,304 fps. I asked him if Big Game would provide a little more leeway with high ambient temperatures.

He said the testing he's done on Big Game with the 9.3 in cold and hot temperatures showed him Big Game isn't as affected as RL-15 is by temperature extremes.

Based on what I want to duplicate, he suggested a starting load of 60 grains Big Game to a maximum of 63.5 grains that should get me around 2,400 fps from a 24" barrel. He also said once I have a load I'm happy with to then test with magnum primers as sometimes the ball power ignites better with magnum primers for lower SD's and tighter groups.

When I get back in late April, I'm going to start with a 59.5 grain charge of Big Game using the 300 grain A-Frame and see what happens.

 

[Proneshooter]

Depending on the time of year for your hunt, it won't be that hot. Starts warming up in September, but June/July it can be downright cold.

 

[Vanguard2279]

I always try to do load development for Africa in the summer. My rationale is that if a load is safe in the ungodly heat of Vegas, it should be fine 75-100 degrees in southern Africa.
I've worked with Big Game and 285, 286 grain bullets in the 9.3x62. My top out was 60 grains. To be fair, I wasn't showing overpressure, but I felt that it had to be near. The bullets I was working with at the time were Norma Oryx, Lapua Mega's and Nosler Partitions. I had the most luck with the Mega's. I'm going to work with the Swift A-frame and the Barnes TSX this summer.
I don't know what game you are after, but most plains game can be handled quite well with the 250-grain Barnes TSX & TTSX and the Swift A-frame with Varget in the 55-57.5 grain range.
I say that knowing that this is your hunt and you should use what you feel best doing.

 

[Puddle]

Depending on the time of year for your hunt, it won't be that hot. Starts warming up in September, but June/July it can be downright cold.

My reasoning for waiting until I get back in late April to start loading & testing is quite strategic.

I've learned the best approach to handling post-hunt depression is simply to get busy preparing for the next hunt!

 

[Fryeguy]

Thanks for the great info so far. I had started a couple grains below the max load his data was to be safe. Every 1/2 grain I went up the groups kept getting smaller. At 65.0 I stopped. I have 6 more rounds loaded to try that level again and chronograph again. I am still below 2500fps, and that’s fine with me. Anything more and I will use the 375. It’s just way faster than my previous accuracy load with RL15. It only averaged 2320fps

 

[Fryeguy]

I do wish I had some 250 A-frames to try. I could only find 286. This gun also loves the 250accubonds, but after the huge size holes it left on exit with coyotes and whitetail deer this fall I am too afraid of the very quick expansion on something large like a gemsbuck that it wouldn’t get thru as well. I would rather not worry and carry a tougher bullet and hopefully punch all the way thru

 

[John Wasmuth]

The 286 A frames should be the best bet since no woodliegh are available at present.

 

[wswolf]

With 250 Accubonds good groups were achieved with the following:
59 gn AR-Comp - 2560 fps
59 gn IMR4166 - 2620 fps
62.5 gn Varget - 2650 fps
62.5 gn N140 - 2640 fps
All loads were good but N140 was outstanding.
Ruger #1 22" barrel - 210 primers - Geco brass

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I've chatted with John Barsness about Big Game in the 9.3.

I have a working 300 grain A-Frame load using RL-15 to an average MV of 2,304 fps. I asked him if Big Game would provide a little more leeway with high ambient temperatures.

He said the testing he's done on Big Game with the 9.3 in cold and hot temperatures showed him Big Game isn't as affected as RL-15 is by temperature extremes.

Based on what I want to duplicate, he suggested a starting load of 60 grains Big Game to a maximum of 63.5 grains that should get me around 2,400 fps from a 24" barrel. He also said once I have a load I'm happy with to then test with magnum primers as sometimes the ball power ignites better with magnum primers for lower SD's and tighter groups.

When I get back in late April, I'm going to start with a 59.5 grain charge of Big Game using the 300 grain A-Frame and see what happens.

@Puddle
Have you considered hogdon CFE223 in your 9.3.
Works great in the Whelen. I have used upto 70gn in the Whelen with the 225gn sierra game king using standard rem primers without issue. I have used this powder in temps from minus 4 to 40 degrees Celsius without issue.
CFE223 seems to give good velocities at safe pressures.
Just a thought.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I do wish I had some 250 A-frames to try. I could only find 286. This gun also loves the 250accubonds, but after the huge size holes it left on exit with coyotes and whitetail deer this fall I am too afraid of the very quick expansion on something large like a gemsbuck that it wouldn’t get thru as well. I would rather not worry and carry a tougher bullet and hopefully punch all the way thru

@Frygugy
I used 225gn accused's at close to 2,900fps in my Whelen and the only one I recovered was on my kudu and the was after close to 5 feet of penetration from sten to stern. The bullet was found in the ham after destroying the chest cavity, going thru the stomach then the intestines. The retained weight was 174gn after all that and a perfect text book mushroom. The do penetrate.
Bob

 

[AZDAVE]

@Fryeguy I have used the 250 acubonds in the 9.3x62 and 9.2x74 on a couple safaris. Have taken from diker to Blue widlebeest with it. had a couple of the small guys with a plum size exit hole, but on the bigger stuff found them against the far side skin expanded like a magazine add. In the x62 I use RL17 for my 250-286gr loads and big game in the 300-320 gr. I am in AZ and find that from the summer heat big game hasn't been as temp sensitive as RL15. But I always load for accuracy over speed. My go to powders in the X62 are RL17 and Big game. I plan on trying some load development with CFE223 based on the good results @Bob Nelson 35Whelen has in the 35 W.

 

[Puddle]

@Puddle
Have you considered hogdon CFE223 in your 9.3.
Works great in the Whelen. I have used upto 70gn in the Whelen with the 225gn sierra game king using standard rem primers without issue. I have used this powder in temps from minus 4 to 40 degrees Celsius without issue.
CFE223 seems to give good velocities at safe pressures.
Just a thought.
Bob

Interesting. And the price is reasonable, considering. I have a pile of 232 gr. Oryx I use for walking around field practice (on coyotes in the sheep fields), so I could start there. Thanks, I'll get a lb.

 

[Fryeguy]

Puddle,
What is your experience with the oryx 232 and expansion on smaller stuff? Does it open quickly enough to be good for quick kills on whitetail deer and black bears?

 

[Fryeguy]

AZDave,
Thanks for the info. I also usually load for accuracy as well. I’d drop 100fps without hesitation if my groups cut in half. With this Ruger, it seems like every bullet I have tried has liked the heavier loads. With big game at 65.0 it was crazy tight. I have loaded more to see if it was just luck or if it’s consistent.

 

[Puddle]

Puddle,
What is your experience with the oryx 232 and expansion on smaller stuff? Does it open quickly enough to be good for quick kills on whitetail deer and black bears?

@Fryeguy, IMHO the Oryx is a "soft" bonded bullet that expands readily. I alternate carrying my 9.3x62mm and my M1 Garand on my daily 5 mile strolls in the hills. As I previously mentioned, I sometimes will catch coyotes in the sheep fields, especially during lambing season. Either bullet - the Oryx or a .30-06 FMJ will typically zip right on through a coyote unless I'm 200 yards+ out. Up close, that's not a problem when hit properly. From those farther distances the Oryx will knock them flat.
A big black bear in my area is 300 lbs and the Oryx is awesome on them. I have not hunted Whitetail deer, but if I traveled north to Alberta, Canada to take on their big bruisers of a Whitetail I would automatically consider using the 232 grain Oryx.
I don't make the Oryx go as fast as possible. In the 9.3x62mm I load them to an average MV of 2,360 - 2,370 fps. I don't consider those trajectories a problem, merely an opportunity to continually hone my getting closer skills.

I'm off for the hills this morning. I'll check back on returning.
Pud

 

[Wildcatter]

On CFE223, I have found it is a great powder for 223, 308, 338-06, and 416 Remington. It seems perfect for these efficient cartridges.

On the discussion of hard or soft bonded bullets, I agree that the Norma Oryx and the Nosler Accubonds are soft bullets. From what I have seen on game, I would group the lighter Woodleigh protected points in 416/340gr and 375/270 into that category as well. The standard Woodleigh weldcore bullets will act the same if pushed to the higher end of their velocity ratings.

I shot a Gemsbok with the 416/340 Woodleigh at 2550fps and the bullets lost over 50% of their weight with no exits. I was stunned at the weight loss of the recovered bullets. Here are 3 photos each of 3 recovered examples.

 

[Wildcatter]

Now the Swift A-frame and A-square Dead Tough are in a class all their own. They are super hard bonded softpoint bullets. Monometals seem to have taken over in this category, for the most part. From what I have seen, this class of bonded bullet outperforms the Barnes triple shock on heavy bone. I wish there were more options in this category, especially for .510 and up.

I did a post-mortem on a huge buffalo bull that was shot with a 416 Rigby and a 400 gr Barnes TSX. The shot was a perfect quartering shot entering the shoulder, breaking the upper humerus, and entering the heart. The bullet stopped in the heart after less than 18” of penetration!! The bull was alive and very angry for 15 minutes. It charged and almost killed someone but a lucky shot with a monometal solid through the brain stopped him. That solid was from a 404 Jeff and it traveled through the skull just under the boss, through vertebrae, and was found under the skin in front of the hind quarter having traveled 5 feet! There is no arguing the effectiveness of the nonmetal solid. Below are 3 images of the recovered heart shot 416 Barnes TSX and the head shot 404 Barnes solid.

A week later, I made the exact same shot on a buffalo cow with a Swift A-frame. The bullet penetrated through humerus, heart, lung, liver, and rumen. Granted, a cow is more lightly built than a bull but the difference in penetration was dramatic. Unfortunately we were unable to recover the bullet. I need to take a small pinpoint metal detector on my next trip.