Best way to practise shooting dangerous game with targets?

njc110381

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Hi all. Having applied for a certificate to buy a .458 Lott there is a real possibility that I may be restricted to use on approved ranges. I would like to hunt with it as that gives real world training, but if it's not given I will need to make the best of it. In the UK we are quite densely populated and the police don't like to hand responsibility to the shooter with big calibres!

It has been said that I should set up targets, probably gongs, at 100, 75, 50 and 25 yards. Assuming I'm trying to simulate a buffalo charge, what size gongs at what ranges? I'm thinking 6" or is that too small/large?

Off of sticks 6" at 100 yards is easy. Free hand it will be more hits than misses. Given the size of the animal and the pressure I feel it may be better to try to develop less accurate shots faster, within an acceptable size target of course? What is considered acceptable grouping and times to take the shots?
 
Never sacrifice accuracy for speed!

Just letting fly and having lead in the air and hoping that that will somehow sort out the issue is not going to work. Don't pull the trigger if you are not going to hit what you are aiming at.

First get the rifle and then concentrate on getting completely competent with it.

100 yards is a long way for a charge situation. I most certainly doubt you will need that. Very few buffalo hunts end in a charge anyway, certainly not if the first bullet goes where it is supposed to.

Practice well off sticks and then keep the offhand shots from about 30 meters down to 10.

Most important is to make sure you can place that first shot exactly where it needs to go, with a 458 Lott and a premium grade bullet that is all you will ever need, the rest is all academic.
 
I agree whole heartedly with IvW! He has vastly more Africa hunting experience than I for sure, but...you should always be prepared for the worst case scenario, IMO. If you have not practiced at a minimum of fast reloads, you could put yourself and others at risk. To be clear, your PH should be the one ready for any backup required!

Case examples you can read on AH would be Ironhorse’s Cape buffalo which knocked everyone down and he and his PH fired from the hip at point blank range.

Another I believe it was Philip Glass who had to kill a leopard which was attacking his PH. It never hurts to be prepared!

ActionBob practices similar to your plan and I am going to do a similar practice for my upcoming lion hunt. I don’t believe the size of the target is so critical. If you can hit a 6” gong at 100yds off sticks, that is great. The first shot should be the calmest most accurately placed shot you can possibly make. Then working your way in within a 4 second window you and your PH should be alive and get the task done.

Best of luck with that beast of a rifle! 458 Lott...OUCH on both ends!
 
Welcome aboard njc110381. Please tell us a little more about yourself as it relates to hunting. Things like what kind and caliber rifles do you own. What have you hunted in the past. Out of curiosity have you shot a 458 Lott off sticks at 100 yards? If not, what is the largest caliber that you have shot off sticks at 100 yards? Unless they've had considerable time behind a 50 Cal Barrett or similar I don't know of many people that would call 6" at 100 yds. off sticks with a 458 Lott easy. Maybe you are one of them. If so, my hat is off to you and please shake my extended hand.
 
.................
Practice well off sticks and then keep the offhand shots from about 30 meters down to 10.
..................

Long after you have achieved excellent accuracy and want to play with cycling the rifle quickly.
Cardboard boxes with 4 inch squares drawn on them set up at 30, 20, 10, 5 yards.


If you are really bored you can purchase one of these.



Screen Shot 2018-12-31 at 07.31.13.png



http://www.panterror.co.za/panterror-device/
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. All noted.

Ok - Shooting experience... I'm 37 and have been shooting since I was around ten years old. I've had deer calibre firearms for ten years. Biggest rifle I've owned and used extensively is a .375H&H - I could comfortably shoot that from a bench or prone all day, and from sticks could group just over an inch at 100m with confidence pretty much every time. I have between 500-1000 deer under my belt in the UK, and from day one haven't had any bother with "buck fever". I'm quite a calm person so bad situations don't generally cause me to panic, only concentrate harder!

Down sides - I'm possibly a bit too laid back. I need to learn to act with a bit more urgency at times! Fast shooting will need some work. I haven't shot anything like the Lott. Big 12g 3.5" loads through a fairly light gun aren't an issue, but that's not a rifle so who knows if I pulled the shots a bit? I do have a fairly reasonable pain threshold though, so if plenty of other people can do it I reckon I can too.

I guess the best thing to do is shoot it and see what happens. If it rattles my teeth too much I can always back down and try a slightly smaller round.

I understand the accuracy thing, but is there really any need to knock the ticks off of the animal's back? I know shots need to be placed accurately but define accurate. You can't need to put down a 10mm group at 100m like I can with my .22-250 when shooting an animal with a heart the size of a melon? With a Lott I don't suppose I'll be able to!
 
I want my 416 Rigby groups under an inch at 100 yards. I am crazy enough to shoot it from a prone position off a bipod to sight it in.
It’s a confidence thing.
Then go on to sticks and off hand shooting.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. All noted.

Ok - Shooting experience... I'm 37 and have been shooting since I was around ten years old. I've had deer calibre firearms for ten years. Biggest rifle I've owned and used extensively is a .375H&H - I could comfortably shoot that from a bench or prone all day, and from sticks could group just over an inch at 100m with confidence pretty much every time. I have between 500-1000 deer under my belt in the UK, and from day one haven't had any bother with "buck fever". I'm quite a calm person so bad situations don't generally cause me to panic, only concentrate harder!

Down sides - I'm possibly a bit too laid back. I need to learn to act with a bit more urgency at times! Fast shooting will need some work. I haven't shot anything like the Lott. Big 12g 3.5" loads through a fairly light gun aren't an issue, but that's not a rifle so who knows if I pulled the shots a bit? I do have a fairly reasonable pain threshold though, so if plenty of other people can do it I reckon I can too.

I guess the best thing to do is shoot it and see what happens. If it rattles my teeth too much I can always back down and try a slightly smaller round.

I understand the accuracy thing, but is there really any need to knock the ticks off of the animal's back? I know shots need to be placed accurately but define accurate. You can't need to put down a 10mm group at 100m like I can with my .22-250 when shooting an animal with a heart the size of a melon? With a Lott I don't suppose I'll be able to!


For a buffalo you do not need 6" accuracy at 100 meters. and 8" paper plate should be fine. I might even argue bigger.

I had two completely different presentations on my two Cape buffalo. The first was walking across the Limpopo River (dry, all sand, but wide open) in a group of about 12 animals. Several challenges were presented but I had trained for most yet not all. I was out of breath after running a ways to head them off. But had trained enough to recover quickly. Honestly, as important or more important that shooting is being as physically fit as you can be. Almost anyone can go shoot a buffalo, but hunting one on your terms, and the buffalo's, depends on what you are up to.... So first I had to wait for my PH to identify which animal to take and for me to understand which it was... I suppose that only took seconds but seemed like an eternity. Then I had to get on him and wait for him to clear the cows as they juggled back and forth through the sand. Then when I was about to shoot a walking buffalo, the PH said wait and I'll stop him.... So he let out a very mournful call which caused the whole herd to switch it up to a trot! To which he replied, well that didn't work, better shoot quickly before they get into the thickets ;) So I did but did not not have enough training on moving targets shooting from sticks and my shot with a 400 grain A Frame out of my M70 416 Rem Mag was right behind the leg, clipping through both lungs and causing him to twitch as if he was bit by a tetsi fly. But he veered towards us at a loping run(not charging us, but angling just past) and I got a second shot in between the shoulder and neck, a hydro solid which later appeared to have exited his opposite ham. I do believe I should have loaded all A Frames. The PH fired his 500 NE with a solid and broke a rear leg... So much for relying on the PH to drop an animal closing in on you.... Those shots turned him and he got up the bank and into the thickets where we had to pick out an ear and bit of horn and finally some blood from the nose... That shot was a bit of a Hail Mary and clipped the bottom of his horn and went down along the backbone and dropped him to his knees, also a hydro solid. Took two more A Frames into the chest to finish him at close range after we got up the bank and found a small hole to shoot between branches.

My second cape buff was quartering away looking over his shoulder at me and about to run off at about 60 to 80 yards and I shot from sticks with my CZ 505 Gibbs and a 525 grain TSX moving at 2350 fps. That laid him right out and he was giving his death bellow propped up against a tree. That caused a massive wound channel from the rumen to the opposite front shoulder as it passed through the vitals. You could have shoved your fist and whole arm through that wound cavity;)

Back to practice, sounds like you need to really concentrate on quickly acquiring the target, getting a well aimed shot off although maybe not as perfectly aimed as you are accustomed to, and then reloading quickly while getting back on target and a second shot off.

If you can do it, some practice on moving targets, but that can be tough if you do not have the right place to do it. I would really concentrate on well placed shots off sticks, reloading and a closer shot both off sticks and off hand, as well as a close shot followed by a longer one.

At most ranges around here, we tend to be limited to 25, 50 and 100 yards. So I practiced getting 3 quick shots into the vital areas of the target, and then reloading quickly and doing it again. Going from far to near and near to far. We do have a nearby indoor range where if you make friends and not to busy, the Range master will program the target to "charge" you and let you get some practice that way but it is only a 50 yard range and it has to be void of other customers for him to let me do that with big bore guns... Although you can practice with smaller calibers in similar action type.
 
Maybe I'll start off with bigger and work down as I improve? A 6" or 8" gong would make a nice 500 yard target with my regular rifles too.
 
Hello,

The British Sporting Rifle Club at Bisley has started running some dedicated ‘large bore’ competitions plus you could shoot in some of their regular ones. They have an excellent running deer range as well.


Some years ago I used to be involved with a group of like minded double rifle enthusiasts & we’d conduct shoots loosely based on those of the Australian Sporting Shooters Association of Australia rules - modified to suit the relevant range etc. They were not only great fun but also gave some realistic context to either practice for the real thing or to aid appreciation of the use of such rifles. Unfortunately changes to the range caused it to come to an end.


Whether you intend to shoot alone or as part of a group I’d recommend a look at the SSAA rules or those of the Bigbore Association of S.A. who I think do similar events.


Organised events for large bore rifles (double or single) need to be encouraged in the UK as not only is it a very enjoyable form of practice & good natured competition but very importantly it provides a genuine ‘good reason’ for possession of such rifles from a legal point of view.


There are other ranges than Bisley where sporting rifle competitions are run albeit normally focused on the scenario of Roe & Red deer stalking. I hope to find a way of expanding interest in my most local one to include the odd event for rifles at the larger end of the scale, we’ll see.


Regards

Russ
 
Hi As a fellow brit (scottish ).I'd like to add my wee bit . .have owned a 375 since 1984 and shot everything in uk with it red ,roe fallow and sika and foxes to ensure that when i went to Africa i could shoot it . used it to take 2 buffalo both no problems and both under 30 yds .
(i'll send you a video if you want)
Decided to move up to Ele's and got a 416 rigby. which again i used on red roe and sika. have taken 2 ele's with it first at 30yds 2nd at 14 and closing. also put final shot into my mates buffalo brain at 15yds to finish it off.
i use my .22 a lot to do quick snap shooting and improve trigger squeeze and muscle memory . also for the elle's i hung a 4 x 2 steel plate of a telephone pole at 10feet out behind my house and practised with my air rifle at 20 yds so i got good at shooting uphill with a rifle.
get close and trust your first shot and reload very quick and keep shooting till he's down.
if you fancy a chat PM me and we can exchange phone numbers
Cheers Ian
 
It's such a great thing to be able to talk to guys with actual field experience. I really appreciate the time you're all taking to share your thoughts and experiences, thank you.

Going over all of this in my head it seems a fairly simple process to work to. Time on the gun will be key, which is fine with me. I cast the bullets and rounds should cost me less than £1 each so my shoulder will be the deciding factor rather than budget. I don't suppose I'll want to fire more than a box per session?

I got talking to a lad at a local gun shop recently about the Lott. He took a fair bit of interest and went on to tell me they had a chap in about a year ago who'd bought a .460 Weatherby from them. Apparently the lad set the gun up for him and got it shooting about right but when he asked the client to shoot a few just to check it was right for him he refused! He'd seen the recoil and wasn't going to put himself through that - he was intending to go and shoot a buff with a rifle he'd never fired before! Apparently the guy hasn't been back to the shop - they don't know whether the rather blunt conversation that followed offended the guy enough for him to go elsewhere or whether he made his trip and got trampled! I like to think he'd have got as far as the PH who would have stopped him from going on the hunt?
 
............ He'd seen the recoil and wasn't going to put himself through that - he was intending to go and shoot a buff with a rifle he'd never fired before! ...........

Scary, but true in more instances than you'd care to believe.
 
Never sacrifice accuracy for speed!

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast....

Don't worry about the speed, it will come. Keep it smooth .

Practice, pracrice, practice!

Dry fire practice with snap caps is a great way to go too. It adds a lot of trigger time and muscle memory is instilled. Before my buff hunt I think I put around 500 live rounds through my .375. I put 1000s through dry fire. Same before my elephant himt, but probably only 300 live rounds. I felt well prepared and reloads were automatic and unthought of.

The physical part that @ActionBob mentions is also critical IMO. Practice shooting out of breath. Run with your rifle if you can safely. If not, just run. Then, shoot from sticks or off hand. It adds realism to your training.

And shoot off sticks as much as possible, both live and dry fire . They are a great tool but you need to be comfortable with them.
 
I have a Vorn pack. I can run with the rifle if I need to and hold it completely secure until it is released to be loaded and fired. I have that for my deer stalking. I'll also loom into snap caps, or make some. I'm sure I could spring load some fake primers into a few cases, like 12g snap caps I guess? I've never seen them for a rifle.

As for going hunting without knowing the gun, those people must be crazy! I'm not going anywhere near something that can kill me until I can shoot my rifle upside down with my eyes closed!
 
I have a Blaser Safari in .458 Lott and a Krieghoff Classic in .470. I was fortunate enough to have my PH visit me for a while in CT. He has me do what he called "run and gun" exercises with my .470, all off hand. His reasoning was that I had already practiced off sticks enough and less than half the shots on Buffalo are from sticks. The drill is to have 3 targets at 50 yards set up about 15 to 20 feet apart. Shoot off hand at the left target, crab to the right 5 fast steps and quickly shoot quickly at the right target, reload, shoot at the left target then crab 5 steps left and shoot at the right target. Repeat, repeat. The movement distracts you from recoil and forces you to acquire targets quickly. Good practice and I have gotten significantly better with this gun.
 
Have you got a bolt action .22lr?

Set it up with as similar sight picture as you can to your Lott (Whether that is irons, red dot or scope) and do some practice with that.

It will not replace muscle memory for using your Lott but it will be cheaper and get good fundaments in in terms of getting sight picture and in expensive practice with lots of repetition.

Scrummy
 

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