Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Bullsbar, Mar 6, 2017.
my error. The Military adopted it for better feeding
Actually, the Ordnance people were told to develop a lighter weight, lower recoil cartridge with better feeding and (in automatic and self-loading weapons) more reliable extraction, i.e. an assault rifle cartridge. They developed the T65 which has less body taper (making feeding worse); and a shorter case, which helps to reduce frequency of case head separation in machine guns. The reduced body taper also makes extraction harder with over-pressure loads (this issue being more pertinent to hand-loads than service ammunition).
The FN FAL and G3 were actually developed as assault rifles but could not be used as such, due to the excessive energy of the T65/.308 Winchester/7.62x51 NATO. The earlier introduction of the new round by Winchester meant that the company could advertise all that nonsense about easier feeding whereas the colonels and generals could not! It is my understanding that 1 million U.S. Dollars was misappropriated for Garand development before WWII, with multiple weapons bearing the same serial number for the initial trials. A second scandal could not have been ignored.
N.B. Anyone who says that the T65 was needed for belt-fed machine guns misses the point! Belt-fed ammo comes in different tins and the Swedes were way ahead of everyone else because after WWI they developed a special 8mm machine gun round inspired by the 8x64 Brenneke (developed for the German Army in 1912).
In fact, I suspect that one of the main reasons for the U.S. push to adopt the T65 was that the German sS (heavy bullet) 7.92x57IS load (introduced in late WWI) was likely to take over the belt-fed role for support weapons in Europe. It is superior to all .30-06 machine gun loads. It was adopted by the British Armoured Corps before WWII, was standard for the WWII German forces, and other countries; and was used in the German tanks taken into service by other countries after WWII. It was also used in the new Panther tanks built for the French after the war, not to mention the LT38-based Hetzer Tank Destroyer that the Czechs continued building postwar.
this place is one of the best history lessons ever. many thanks
I beg to differ,perhaps you could have a look at the great .358 Norma magnum V .35 Whelen and I`m pretty sure that you will see the truth.
I think 3006/308 is ticket..... anything lighter, might short side yourself on a brute or if you wanted to hunt larger game..... no need for bigger unless your going for DG. I've harvested 16 PG with 06, Springbok to Eland.
Use what ever rifle you are the most comfortable shooting that is of adequate caliber. Essentially anything .270 and up with premium bullets. It's about accuracy more than anything else. You could be shooting a cannon and if you don't shoot the animal in the right spot then it's going to be a long expensive day.
What ever you decide on shoot the best bullets you can find and shoot a hellava lot before you go. You'll be just fine.
OK, let me give this thread a new twist: I dare anyone to come up with a single reason NOT to recommend the 30-06 as the perfect non-dangerous game cartridge. It has it all: historical appeal, versatility, killing power, mild recoil, velocity (especially with handloads) and widespread availability.
Full disclosure: I don't own a sporting rifle in that caliber, so no dog in this race. Just for argument's purpose!
7 x 57 mm Mauser or a 6.5 x 55 Swede, you do not need more for your requirement.
a 300 is a bit of overkill for whitetail, but if I was looking for 1 rifle for practically everything, I'd go with the 300wsm.
The truth is 358 norma mag has to much recoil for most people, its a contender but not the champ
300 win mag has served me well in many situations
My preference would be 35Whelen followed by the 8X57 (323 bore). Both shoot flat enough for plains game, mild recoil heavier bullet weights and, most importantly, put a bigger hole in the animal.
The 7.62X51/308's parent case is the 300 Savage, not the 30-06 as most think.
A 270 shooting 150g Partitions at 2900 plus fps.
and it can be loaded light for deer
7mm08 is very under appreciated as a mild recoiling round. use one of many good bullet options that we have today and you will
not be sorry.
My guess is you'll end up with a few rifles. I bought a 7mm Rem Mag for a do all rifle. Which it very well could be with the right bullets. I'll be using it twice this year. But now I have multiples of a safefull of calibers. Just buy the one that you think will work the best at the moment. Go from there. I'm a fan of everything from 6.5 Creedmoor, up to the .338 win mag. Anything between that will kill a deer. Having said that, I now have a .375 H&H that I'm dying to use.
I know the feeling. Our vintage BDL in 270 has accounted for so many deer, elk and bear. But now I hunt everything with my 500 Jeffery. It's just so much fun and "they don't get up", not that they did when hit with a 150g Partition from the 270 either.
Me and my family all use 7-08 for deer. My wife killed a zebra with hers.
Excellent choice, this little American 7 x 57!
I already have a .243 and .308, so I don't need a 7-08...but I sure want one!
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