Best Grade Heym 470NE Double Rifle Package

: When Heym was making guns 12-15 years ago, they used several regulation ammo options: , or 5.) Norma. 1 doesn’t exist right now because they rely on Woodleigh bullets from a burned out factory,
I don't have a dog in this race, but in the interest of correct information according to e-mails from Geoff Macdonald the building has been rebuilt and the equipment is being machined. It was hoped that bullets would be available by the first of this year and some are. So it is incorrect to refer to current status of Woodleigh bullets as a burned out factory.
 
Friends, I had a PM come through from a member that was critical of the rifle and I wanted to post it here in public for educational purposes. The answers explain why my gun is worth more than other guns and why most double rifles are overpriced money pits for the uninformed.


He wrote in part: "Regarding my comments about your listing. First of all, why would you have to send a fairly high end Heym or any other modern double to someone to regulate it for you is beyond my comprehension. I have owned many fine double rifles including Merkels, Kreighoffs, and original Jefferys. A new rifle should shoot standard factory ammo just fine otherwise work up your own."

Before I answer, definitions of terms are very important. When we say "regulating a double rifle" it can mean three things. 1.) regulating the sights, meaning adjusting iron sights to get them to hit where the bullets land. 2.) It can mean tearing the barrel wedge out, resoldering it, and making any double rifle shoot a specific factory ammo, just like they did when they made the gun new. 3.) The most common definition used on this forum: Having custom ammunition developed to shoot as accurately as possible with the factory barrels. This occurs often for a variety of reasons in my answer below.


Regarding my gun, you asked why it needed regulation. Several reasons: When Heym was making guns 12-15 years ago, they used several regulation ammo options: 1.) Kynoch, 2.) Old Recipe Federal Premium, 3.) Wolfgang Romey, or 4.) Hirtenberger, or 5.) Norma. 1 doesn’t exist right now because they rely on Woodleigh bullets from a burned out factory, 2.) Federal changed recipes so new Federal ammo will not shoot to the same point of impact as paper-box versions from a few years back, 3.) Wolfgang is bankrupt, 4.) Hirtenberger no longer makes large bore ammo, 5.) Norma changed powder numerous times so their new ammo doesn't regulate the same as their old ammo. So, unless you have a very new double rifle regulated to the new Federal recipe, or Hornady, none of these guns will hit the broadside of a barn from any manufacturer. In my gun’s Case, it appears that it was regulated for Kynoch because an original cordite-like loading using imr3031 proved to be very accurate.

A lot of members come to me via email and phone asking for me to help them get a steal of a deal on guns. They want a bargain, but they do not understand the inherent risks in a bargain. I've never sold a high end gun that didn't have a pedigree that de-risks the transaction. Any astute buyer understands that you need an independent and impartial expert to preside over the legitimacy and quality of a fine gun. In my gun's case, as is the case with any of the credible best guns you see for sale at retailers like Steve Barnett and elsewhere, you want to see regulation targets from Ken Owen in his handwriting showing that the gun shoots exceptionally well with a defined load. That's why Steve Barnett's used guns are $60,000 and its why mine is priced what it is. The proof matters. In addition, you want to know who has been inside of a gun mechanically because there are shadetree gunsmiths everywhere destroying guns. My gun has been in the hands of Ken Owen for trigger tuning and the stock finishing was done by Dan Morgan, both world renowned. Other quality guns will claim that JJ Peridoux serviced the gun, or a number of well known experts in the UK.

Pedigree matters a great deal. Pedigree (implied warranty and chain-of-custody) of a fine gun is why they cost more, because that costs money.

The trail of tears running to my inbox from friends that bought "too good to be true" double rifles is very long and damp. Damage occurred by hobbyist handloading. Incompetent gunsmiths tried to fix things they did not understand. Black Powder Express guns have been purchased thinking they were Nitro Express guns.

I stand by my reputation and I wish to educate the public. The rifle I am selling is one of the cheapest double rifles you'll find in the long run because it is ready to hunt, is accurate, has thousands of dollars worth of ammo, and it is in perfect condition. You may not be so lucky finding that deal on a $15,000 double rifle that has latent defects, has been reworked, will not regulate, or was a "bargain" at auction for $20,000 but is not a bargain landed at your door with fees and import costs making it $40,000 by the time you're ready to go hunting with it.

If you cannot determine the reason why one double rifle is expensive and another is very cheap, delay a purchase, talk with more experts, and learn. You work hard for your money and the cheapest gun usually becomes the most expensive in the end.
@rookhawk could not be more correct. I have now owned many different brands of DR all in large calibers. I have found through experience exactly what he has stated. All DR are finicky when it comes to regulation. Unless the exact load is given you are on your own in terms of regulation. I have literally spent almost twice on an inexpensive DR only to find truly you get what you pay for.
 
I think it will do better on GI.
 
I sense something is changing on/in this forum. It seems a few years ago that posts were to the positive but there now seems to be a trend to the negative on many subjects. Perhaps I am just getting older and more critical but it seems Covid had its impact on our positive objectivity.
Still one of the best forums out there in the land of gun guys. Thank you all.
 
I sense something is changing on/in this forum. It seems a few years ago that posts were to the positive but there now seems to be a trend to the negative on many subjects. Perhaps I am just getting older and more critical but it seems Covid had its impact on our positive objectivity.
Still one of the best forums out there in the land of gun guys. Thank you all.
I'm not saying I do or don't agree with you, as I enjoy a lot of positivity here, but I don't read every last post. However, it's been my experience that every forum will reach a certain size/volume and the negative will seem to have a more pronounced voice. Just don't engage it, move on, emphasize the positive discourse that's always been a mainstay here, and the negativity will have a much harder time taking root.
 
I sense something is changing on/in this forum. It seems a few years ago that posts were to the positive but there now seems to be a trend to the negative on many subjects. Perhaps I am just getting older and more critical but it seems Covid had its impact on our positive objectivity.
Still one of the best forums out there in the land of gun guys. Thank you all.
I didn't feel that AH was hostile to my gun or this post. I just didn't sell the gun so I need to try another venue with a wider audience. Guns are objects, if people don't like my guns, it doesn't mean I don't like the critic as a person. It's all fine. Hopefully others give me the same latitude because there are some people on this forum I really like that own some really awful guns! :) (Plastic stock guys...you know who you are)

All's well.

In related news, a very similar Heym 470NE sold at auction in Austria two weeks ago for 33,000 euros. With import, duty, hammer premiums, foreign transaction fees, converting to dollars, plus making regulating loads for the gun, it's a $55,000-$58,000 gun landed and ready to hunt. *assuming no gotchas are encountered by gunsmiths or load regulators. That bodes well for my gun's asking price of $38,500 based on its pedigree and who has inspected it.
 
This is an interesting observation, I am also sensing more negativity, not just on this forum but generally. Perhaps it is the political climate, perhaps folks are also worn out a bit after covid as you say. I know of one or two contrarians on AH who seem to get a kick out of brash statements and looking for a scrap. I agree, just ignore them! I am naturally positive and enjoy life not because of ra ra, but because it is genuinely good.
 
I didn't feel that AH was hostile to my gun or this post. I just didn't sell the gun so I need to try another venue with a wider audience. Guns are objects, if people don't like my guns, it doesn't mean I don't like the critic as a person. It's all fine. Hopefully others give me the same latitude because there are some people on this forum I really like that own some really awful guns! :) (Plastic stock guys...you know who you are)

All's well.

In related news, a very similar Heym 470NE sold at auction in Austria two weeks ago for 33,000 euros. With import, duty, hammer premiums, foreign transaction fees, converting to dollars, plus making regulating loads for the gun, it's a $55,000-$58,000 gun landed and ready to hunt. *assuming no gotchas are encountered by gunsmiths or load regulators. That bodes well for my gun's asking price of $38,500 based on its pedigree and who has inspected it.

Haha I'm one of those guys that has the plastic guns (I'll assume you like me, it will make me feel better about myself).

Your rifle is awesome! My checking account says I cannot afford it. You definitely have a lot to offer for the money asked. The market has slowed down, that probably has affected some people spending if I had to guess.
 
@rookhawk has been very upfront with everything about this double rifle. He first mentioned to me that he might sell it a few years ago when I sought his advice on another double rifle purchase I was considering. I wish I would have bought his rifle back then when I still had a few more safaris planned. Now, I have just one big safari planned and am not sure if I will book another for myself although I hope to go with my son when he wants to go. He is 27 with a young family but he loves to hunt. I’m only 56 but have been to Africa several times and my personal list of animals I am interested in is dwindling so I’ve decided to finish out the list with my bolt rifles. My wife and I are also accruing grandchildren at an increasing rate from our four children and traveling to see them is taking up more and more time and resources.

My point is that buying this rifle at this time in my African hunting career makes less sense than it did earlier and I regret that decision. If anyone on this site is just getting going on an African safari hunting career, this rifle would be a great purchase. The rifle is ready to hunt and has been well cared for by someone with knowledge. It would not be a mistake. Someone should go for it!

I wish @rookhawk good luck in selling it even if I am a bit sick to my stomach for not buying it myself. It would look exquisite posing next to me with a lion I hope to get this year in Tanzania. I hope to see someone on AH end up with this rifle.
 
I would have bought it but already have a Heym 470NE. Rook’s double is a beautiful rifle with every option and I wish him luck on GI.

HH
 
I have personally seen this rifle. It’s spectacular in every way.

I don’t pretend to know anything about firearms of this level. I do know this double is a very special firearm.

Rookhawk, I’m going to repeat what my father used to say. “You can do whatever it is you want to do, but you have to live with the consequences.” Are you sure you want to sell it? You can still say no.

The gun is spectacular. Best wishes for you and for the buyer. Wonderful gun.

John the electrician.
 
GLWS, Sir.
No interest on this forum, so it has now been listed on GI. I realize AH policy is that things aren't supposed to be listed in two places, so they can delete this thread if they wish.
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