Best bullets for 7mm-08 hunting African plains game?

Thank you so much for your recommendations, Rookhawk! I always feel better about my choices when running it by with somebody with experience. I am just curious, don't you like the 160 grain NP? Since you like the 156 grain Oryx, what about the 230 grain Oryx for larger....or maybe all plains game? Would you have taken something else if you were in my shoes, that I haven't listed?

@Capebuffalo I'm not an expert or a ballistician, I'm just a fellow traveller on the same journey you're on. I have my personal experiences, the anecdotes of people I trust, and the physics/properties of the bullets that I combine to render an opinion.

You asked why I don't like Nosler Partitions. I owned two cases of 7x57mm 175gr Nosler Partitions. Definitely, a big bullet for a safari 7mm. I used both cases for target shooting, preparation for hunting, and for several safaris and NA hunts. My experiences matched the lore and legend of the heavy-for-caliber Nosler Partitions EXACTLY. Both good and bad.

1.) Heavy for caliber bullets penetrate well and dump their energy with their "hang time" killing effect. This phenomenon was understood very well more than a century ago. It's why the 7x57 standard was 175-180gr, its why the 6.5x55 standard was 160gr. It's why the big bores do so darned well for all history launching >40 call bullets over 400gr at 2150fps. *Fact set 1*

2.) Nosler partitions frange. Weak, unbonded front ends splinter up when they hit weak bone, whereas the tail of the partition operates like a solid driving deep. There isn't an 80 year old elk hunter on the planet that doesn't have the stories of how good a Partition worked in a relatively weak caliber like a 7x57 or a .270. When they work as planned, they devastate. BUT, frangibility of a partition is not consistent. Every shot gets you a different result depending on how they hit a rib or shoulder. A lot of game hit squarely were unrecovered too. That's likely because the bullet franged, causing an inconsistent mushroom that deflected the front end particles into a non-lethal hit and the "solid" rear deflected into a non-lethal location. That's why I don't like NPs. Both of the anecdotes are true, and I don't like the randomization of expansion that makes it the bullet that has the most negative-positive arguments around a campfire. *Fact Set 2*

Oryx is a tougher bullet. A-Frame is the irrefutable king of heavy-for-caliber softs. The Barnes TTSX is the alternative, but you're trading heavy for calber lead for light-for-caliber copper. That means the A-frame is killing with ballistic trauma, the TTSX may be killing with "Roy Weatherby" "speed kills". (hydrostatic shock/sheer) Unless I need the flatter shooting of copper, I'd rather have the 22% greater mass by volume of lead. (A-Frame)

So if you had infinite resources and all known bullets available, for your 338 I'd absolutely tell you to use an A-Frame. For your 7x57 I'd recommend a big nasty bullet for closer work, 160-175gr. If you can't get a-frames, I'd go to the proven woodleigh weldcore SP since it was made for that caliber at that velocity.

Everything I say above is consistent with the reflections of Pondoro Taylor a 100 years ago. I'm not arguing his TCO math or his theories, I'm simply saying his reflections and anecdotes of what worked well are true, I just believe the causation of the success is more nuanced than he did.
 
@Capebuffalo I'm not an expert or a ballistician, I'm just a fellow traveller on the same journey you're on. I have my personal experiences, the anecdotes of people I trust, and the physics/properties of the bullets that I combine to render an opinion.

You asked why I don't like Nosler Partitions. I owned two cases of 7x57mm 175gr Nosler Partitions. Definitely, a big bullet for a safari 7mm. I used both cases for target shooting, preparation for hunting, and for several safaris and NA hunts. My experiences matched the lore and legend of the heavy-for-caliber Nosler Partitions EXACTLY. Both good and bad.

1.) Heavy for caliber bullets penetrate well and dump their energy with their "hang time" killing effect. This phenomenon was understood very well more than a century ago. It's why the 7x57 standard was 175-180gr, its why the 6.5x55 standard was 160gr. It's why the big bores do so darned well for all history launching >40 call bullets over 400gr at 2150fps. *Fact set 1*

2.) Nosler partitions frange. Weak, unbonded front ends splinter up when they hit weak bone, whereas the tail of the partition operates like a solid driving deep. There isn't an 80 year old elk hunter on the planet that doesn't have the stories of how good a Partition worked in a relatively weak caliber like a 7x57 or a .270. When they work as planned, they devastate. BUT, frangibility of a partition is not consistent. Every shot gets you a different result depending on how they hit a rib or shoulder. A lot of game hit squarely were unrecovered too. That's likely because the bullet franged, causing an inconsistent mushroom that deflected the front end particles into a non-lethal hit and the "solid" rear deflected into a non-lethal location. That's why I don't like NPs. Both of the anecdotes are true, and I don't like the randomization of expansion that makes it the bullet that has the most negative-positive arguments around a campfire. *Fact Set 2*

Oryx is a tougher bullet. A-Frame is the irrefutable king of heavy-for-caliber softs. The Barnes TTSX is the alternative, but you're trading heavy for calber lead for light-for-caliber copper. That means the A-frame is killing with ballistic trauma, the TTSX may be killing with "Roy Weatherby" "speed kills". (hydrostatic shock/sheer) Unless I need the flatter shooting of copper, I'd rather have the 22% greater mass by volume of lead. (A-Frame)

So if you had infinite resources and all known bullets available, for your 338 I'd absolutely tell you to use an A-Frame. For your 7x57 I'd recommend a big nasty bullet for closer work, 160-175gr. If you can't get a-frames, I'd go to the proven woodleigh weldcore SP since it was made for that caliber at that velocity.

Everything I say above is consistent with the reflections of Pondoro Taylor a 100 years ago. I'm not arguing his TCO math or his theories, I'm simply saying his reflections and anecdotes of what worked well are true, I just believe the causation of the success is more nuanced than he did.
Rookhawk,

Everything you say make sense, and it is the way I see it too. Due to all the reasons you mentioned, I think I will settle with the 225-250 Swift A-Frame for larger PG, depends on hunting area and specific animals, and my second choice will be the 230 grain Norma Oryx or Woodleigh's 225-250 W/C PP. For the cat species (if my ship arrives), I will feel comfortable with Woodleigh's 250 and 300 grain W/C RN. I agree, the 175 grain Woodleigh 7mm bullet might be the better bullet to go with on the smaller PG where distances are under 200 yards, with the 160 grain Woodleigh or the 156 grain Norma Oryx as a second choice, especially where distances are a little longer. Thank you for clearing the NP issue for me.....Although my personal experience with the NP is great, I heard about some odd experiences too with this bullet, whereas with the S A-F, Woodleigh's and N Oryx, I haven't heard anything negative over the years.
 
A-Frame vs Partition, recovered from African Game animals.

Which one looks better?

IMG_7176.JPG
 
A-Frame vs Partition, recovered from African Game animals.

Which one looks better?

View attachment 533239
My only concern with the S A-F in the 7mm-08 is that the mushroom will not not look like these due to it's lower MV, therefore I will rather opt for the Woodleigh's PP or the 156 Oryx in the 7mm-08. What is your take on it regarding the S-AF in smaller Cartridges with slower velocities?
 
We just got back and took the same combo. I shot 250gr swift A frames out of 338wm. They are hammers. Only bullet recovered was from eland (it broke skin on off side but didn't exit)

I was not satisfied with load results for 160 gr in 7mm-08 and settled with 140 gr Sierra's btsp. Impala was all it was used for. 140 A-frames if you can find them would be good. 150 scirocco would be a good substitute.
 
My only concern with the S A-F in the 7mm-08 is that the mushroom will not not look like these due to it's lower MV, therefore I will rather opt for the Woodleigh's PP or the 156 Oryx in the 7mm-08. What is your take on it regarding the S-AF in smaller Cartridges with slower velocities?


1683830672999.png
 

Out of a 7x57 with a moderately brisk load, you're going to get 2525 to 2550fps MV. Inside of 200 yards, you're still in the 2300-2500 FPS at impact. More importantly, you hit bone, its going to retain its weight and punch through if you had a less than ideal shot. Not ideal, but getting a 2nd shot on a "Broken animal" is better than chasing after a lightly wounded one for a week.
 
I really like the 175Gr Hornady Interlock in my 7x57mm Mauser.
 
Rookhawk,

Everything you say make sense, and it is the way I see it too. Due to all the reasons you mentioned, I think I will settle with the 225-250 Swift A-Frame for larger PG, depends on hunting area and specific animals, and my second choice will be the 230 grain Norma Oryx or Woodleigh's 225-250 W/C PP. For the cat species (if my ship arrives), I will feel comfortable with Woodleigh's 250 and 300 grain W/C RN. I agree, the 175 grain Woodleigh 7mm bullet might be the better bullet to go with on the smaller PG where distances are under 200 yards, with the 160 grain Woodleigh or the 156 grain Norma Oryx as a second choice, especially where distances are a little longer. Thank you for clearing the NP issue for me.....Although my personal experience with the NP is great, I heard about some odd experiences too with this bullet, whereas with the S A-F, Woodleigh's and N Oryx, I haven't heard anything negative over the years.

I have hunted in North America, Africa and Australia with a Tikka in 338 WinMag and have always used Swift A Frames with great success. They even worked wonders on huge water buffalo in Australia. Mostly 250 gr but did use the 275 grain on the water buffalo. You can't go wrong with SAF's.

For my 7MM Mag I use Nosler Accubond and Accubond LR and they have never failed me and they shoot more accurately than Sift A Frames do in my rifle. I use heavy for caliber bullets 160, 168 and 175 gr. Have shot everything up to and including Red Stag and Eland with them. If you have access to the Accubond you may want to give them a look.
 
Out of a 7x57 with a moderately brisk load, you're going to get 2525 to 2550fps MV. Inside of 200 yards, you're still in the 2300-2500 FPS at impact. More importantly, you hit bone, its going to retain its weight and punch through if you had a less than ideal shot. Not ideal, but getting a 2nd shot on a "Broken animal" is better than chasing after a lightly wounded one for a week.
This is how my brain works too! It is for sure easier to deal with a broken animal than a lightly wounded one....I learned that early in my hunting career...It is conversations like these that I appreciate so much, because so many times you lay in bed at night and wonder which way to go in your decisions...and when you get basically confirmation during these discussions on what spins through your mind....it brings definitely tremendous peace of mind for me...
 
I really like the 175Gr Hornady Interlock in my 7x57mm Mauser.
I was wondering how this bullet performs in the field...especially with lower velocities on shorter distances...
 
I have hunted in North America, Africa and Australia with a Tikka in 338 WinMag and have always used Swift A Frames with great success. They even worked wonders on huge water buffalo in Australia. Mostly 250 gr but did use the 275 grain on the water buffalo. You can't go wrong with SAF's.

For my 7MM Mag I use Nosler Accubond and Accubond LR and they have never failed me and they shoot more accurately than Sift A Frames do in my rifle. I use heavy for caliber bullets 160, 168 and 175 gr. Have shot everything up to and including Red Stag and Eland with them. If you have access to the Accubond you may want to give them a look.
Houston Bill,
So good to hear about your good experiences with the 338 WM and the S A-F's. I assume then that the Accubonds work better in the faster 7mm's and when doing the longer shots in the more open areas...
 
I was wondering how this bullet performs in the field...especially with lower velocities on shorter distances...
It performs well, but I really wish that Hornady was still making the old round nosed version. The round nosed version is now only available as Federal factory ammunition. That ammunition is advertised as being capable of achieving 2390fps. But it only achieves 2317fps (I checked on a chronograph).
IMG_2119.jpeg
 
It performs well, but I really wish that Hornady was still making the old round nosed version. The round nosed version is now only available as Federal factory ammunition. That ammunition is advertised as being capable of achieving 2390fps. But it only achieves 2317fps (I checked on a chronograph).
View attachment 533279
Hunter-Habib
I see Hornady still advertise the 250 grain RN bullet in .338 on their website. I haven't used it yet but I think that can be a devastating bullet on cats....wonder if it will be better than the Woodleigh's 250 grain RN...
 
We just got back and took the same combo. I shot 250gr swift A frames out of 338wm. They are hammers. Only bullet recovered was from eland (it broke skin on off side but didn't exit)

I was not satisfied with load results for 160 gr in 7mm-08 and settled with 140 gr Sierra's btsp. Impala was all it was used for. 140 A-frames if you can find them would be good. 150 scirocco would be a good substitute.
Mwag,
So, were you not satisfied with the velocity of the 160 grain S A-F out of the 7mm-08 or the real results?
Do you suggest a lighter bullet (140 grain) rather than using a 175 grain Woodleigh bullets that has the weight but is way softer and will ensure expansion...? Remember we are talking about below 200 yard shooting distances here...
 
Hunter-Habib
I see Hornady still advertise the 250 grain RN bullet in .338 on their website. I haven't used it yet but I think that can be a devastating bullet on cats....wonder if it will be better than the Woodleigh's 250 grain RN...
Cape Buffalo,
On the great cats… I’ve had the greatest success with Nosler Partitions.
IMG_1537.jpeg

IMG_1791.jpeg
IMG_1801.jpeg

Nosler used to load a 250Gr Partition factory load for the .338 Winchester Magnum. Absolutely magnificent. Unfortunately, new Nosler products seem to be in extremely short supply all over the world since the past one year.

Among currently manufactured/available factory loaded ammunition for lion & leopard, I really like these in a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum.
Nice old fashioned unbonded lead cored design. For lion & leopard, this is actually a good thing.

I’m assuming that this is the 250Gr .338 caliber Hornady Interlock bullet which you’re referring to. It will be absolutely devastating for lion & leopard (where legal, of course). A close friend recently hunted a 500LB male lion In Mozambique with a .338 Winchester Magnum Model 70 Super Grade and hand loaded 250Gr Hornady round nosed Interlocks. One broadside heart-lung shot folded the lion and the game went less than 30 yards before dropping.

Up until 1980, Winchester used to offer a 300Gr Power-Point factory load for the .338 Winchester Magnum. It was a favorite cartridge of King Mahendra of Nepal, who favored this load in his .338 Winchester Magnum Mannlicher Schounauer for hunting Royal Bengal tigers in the Terrai.
 

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I have hunted in North America, Africa and Australia with a Tikka in 338 WinMag and have always used Swift A Frames with great success. They even worked wonders on huge water buffalo in Australia. Mostly 250 gr but did use the 275 grain on the water buffalo. You can't go wrong with SAF's.

For my 7MM Mag I use Nosler Accubond and Accubond LR and they have never failed me and they shoot more accurately than Sift A Frames do in my rifle. I use heavy for caliber bullets 160, 168 and 175 gr. Have shot everything up to and including Red Stag and Eland with them. If you have access to the Accubond you may want to give them a look.
Houston Bill,
Do you have the synthetic or laminated stock? Do you have the 24" barrel? How is the recoil on those Tikka's? The laminated ones in 338 WM look really nice, I was just wondering about the recoil since it is on the light side.....
 
Cape Buffalo,
On the great cats… I’ve had the greatest success with Nosler Partitions.View attachment 533281
View attachment 533280View attachment 533282
Nosler used to load a 250Gr Partition factory load for the .338 Winchester Magnum. Absolutely magnificent. Unfortunately, new Nosler products seem to be in extremely short supply all over the world since the past one year.

Among currently manufactured/available factory loaded ammunition for lion & leopard, I really like these in a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum.
Nice old fashioned unbonded lead cored design. For lion & leopard, this is actually a good thing.

I’m assuming that this is the 250Gr .338 caliber Hornady Interlock bullet which you’re referring to. It will be absolutely devastating for lion & leopard (where legal, of course). Up until 1980, Winchester used to offer a 300Gr Power-Point factory load for the .338 Winchester Magnum. It was a favorite cartridge of King Mahendra of Nepal, who favored this load in his .338 Winchester Magnum Mannlicher Schounauer for hunting Royal Bengal tigers in the Terrai.
Interesting, and good to hear!
 

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