BC Outfitter Stole? my Deposit. Any Ideas?

[JeffUSMC]

I am hoping that someone on this forum may be an outfitter and have some idea beyond what I have already thought of or may be a Canadian citizen that can point me toward some Government entity that can help. I have booked and taken dozens of guided hunts in my lifetime without ever having any issues of this nature before. This problem has me stumped. In December of 2023 I contacted Fire Mountain Outfitters in BC about a Wolverine hunt. We agreed on a winter 2025 date. He sent me a contract and I sent him a $1000.00 deposit to secure the hunt. Almost four months later in March I emailed him to ask a question and I got no reply. Not wanting to be a bother I let it go. I waited maybe 4-6 weeks then emailed again and once again I got no reply. After another couple weeks I tried calling and got no return phone call. I have now sent five emails with the last one asking for my deposit to be returned with no replies at all. I reached out to another BC outfitter that I have hunted with to see if maybe the guy died or went out of business and he stated that he was not aware of anything like that. It seems that Fire Mountain took my deposit, maybe changed his mind about the hunt and has no intention of returning it. Any ideas?

 

[John Wasmuth]

Seems to be a lot of that going on these days.

 

[375Fox]

Is he a member of the guides outfitter association of BC? I’d reach out to them for advice

 

[LivingTheDream]

Did you reach out to the BC outfitters association?

Home - GOABC Guide Outfitters Association of British Columbia Canada

GOABC is a non-profit society established in 1966 to represent the guide outfitting industry in British Columbia, Canada

www.goabc.org

 

[V.Veritas]

Check if BC has something similar to ON.
Both are left leaning provinces, so it may have it.

Filing a consumer complaint

Find out how to file a complaint against a business in Ontario.

www.ontario.ca

 

[Gemsbok45]

I know a 1000.00 dollars is a chunk of money but in the whole scheme of things not a very big hit if he was just a criminal. Something has to be up. I know you can get killed for less but also sending a contract.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

As far as I can tell other than bad publicity and possible backlash from professional organizations your only real recourse would be small claims court. I’m unsure on bc law but provincially in Nova Scotia all deposits are considered non refundable unless stated otherwise and until your hunt doesn’t go as planned in 2026 im not sure he’d of legally broken his contract. Those would be questions to take up with legal counsel you retain in British Columbia.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

That’s not to say I condone his actions just to give you an idea what you may be up against.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Small Claims Court. Here in Ontario small claims could run up to $16K (,last I knew anyway). The paperwork can be filed by individual. Don't know about BC but here courts are very tech advanced. Often claims can be handled by zoom appearances. I would suggest contacting the local provincial court. Serve the guy with a claim and that will usually wake him up.

Did you pay with credit card? If you did contact your credit card company. They may reverse the payment if services are not forthcoming.

 

[Nevada Smith]

Have you called all three separate phone numbers listed on this page?

Contact Fire Mountain Outfitters

Fire Mountain Outfitters call us at 604-900-9732 for questions or to book a hunt.

www.firemountainoutfitters.com

Have you contacted the post office that gets their mail to see if they've still got a postal box and are still picking-up their mail?

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Small Claims Court. Here in Ontario small claims could run up to $16K (,last I knew anyway). The paperwork can be filed by individual. Don't know about BC but here courts are very tech advanced. Often claims can be handled by zoom appearances. I would suggest contacting the local provincial court. Serve the guy with a claim and that will usually wake him up.

Did you pay with credit card? If you did contact your credit card company. They may reverse the payment if services are not forthcoming.

The op would need to retain a lawyer unless he intended to show up to court himself in person in Canada.

 

[JeffUSMC]

I paid with a personal check. Small claims may be an option but can a US citizen bring a claim against a Canadian citizen? Also if I cannot do small claims remotely the cost of travel, aggravation etc far outweighs the $1000.00 he took. I will see if BC courts allow remote appearances. I will reach out to the BC Guides Association. That could be a potential avenue. Probably not a legal avenue but possibly at least a way to voice a grievance and show a pattern of behavior. I would think that if they know he is ripping of clients they would stop supporting him. Thank you

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I paid with a personal check. Small claims may be an option but can a US citizen bring a claim against a Canadian citizen? Also if I cannot do small claims remotely the cost of travel, aggravation etc far outweighs the $1000.00 he took. I will see if BC courts allow remote appearances. I will reach out to the BC Guides Association. That could be a potential avenue. Probably not a legal avenue but possibly at least a way to voice a grievance and show a pattern of behavior. I would think that if they know he is ripping of clients they would stop supporting him. Thank you

A American can sue a Canadian in small claims court but the petition would have to be filed in the region the Canadian lives, a lawyer would be able to file on your behalf saving you the travel.

 

[Graham Hunter]

Check with the GOABC. If he is a licensed Outfitter he will be bonded. They can help you retrieve your deposit. I was a member so my info is pretty solid.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The op would need to retain a lawyer unless he intended to show up to court himself in person in Canada.

Since COVID the courts have made allowances for appearance by zoom. I have made numerous zoom appearances re my Ontario Superior Court claim for my son's death due to medical malpractice. He should check with local court.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Since COVID the courts have made allowances for appearance by zoom. I have made numerous zoom appearances re my Ontario Superior Court claim for my son's death due to medical malpractice. He should check with local court.

Apples and oranges superior court is not small claims , Canadian law clearly state either the plaintiffs or agent on the plaintiffs behalf must present grievance in the district the defendant resides in or conducts business in. He could give testimony remotely via zoom if he had a representative acting on his behalf in Canada.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@JeffUSMC Technically, the outfitter has not stolen your $1000 deposit for a 2026 hunt. You simply can’t get in touch with him in 2024. Yes, poor communication can be frustrating. Suggest you have a friend or relative contact the outfitter, posing as a potential client looking for some high dollar hunt. Think moose/bear combo or a father/son hunt. If the outfitter replies quickly, then you should email or call immediately. I helped a buddy out who was having problems with an unsavory Alaskan outfitter.

I’m curious about booking a wolverine hunt. I know a lot of guides trap them and they are sometimes a target of opportunity when hunting something else, like moose, caribou, bear, etc. I didn’t know people actually hunted them as the main course.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

@

@JeffUSMC Technically, the outfitter has not stolen your $1000 deposit for a 2026 hunt. You simply can’t get in touch with him in 2024. Yes, poor communication can be frustrating. Suggest you have a friend or relative contact the outfitter, posing as a potential client looking for some high dollar hunt. Think moose/bear combo or a father/son hunt. If the outfitter replies quickly, then you should email or call immediately. I helped a buddy out who was having problems with an unsavory Alaskan outfitter.

I’m curious about booking a wolverine hunt. I know a lot of guides trap them and they are sometimes a target of opportunity when hunting something else, like moose, caribou, bear, etc. I didn’t know people actually hunted them as the main course.

that was my original thought as well until the agreed date in 2026 the outfitter has not failed to provide the services promised. That was why I originally advised him to speak to legal counsel in British Columbia.

I would think graham hunters comment would be the wised course of action as he is knowledgeable about procedures in the region.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Actually I need to correct a typo that is relevant to the story. The hunt is / was booked for winter of 2025. Not 2026. The hunt is supposed to take place in about 6-7 months. I mistakenly typed the incorrect year. This is why I am seeking advice now because the time is quickly approaching. Sorry for the mistake.

Still wouldn’t change the fact that until the date of your hunt the guide has technically not ripped you off. In your shoes I would pm graham hunter and discuss his idea as he has the local knowledge the rest of us myself included are lacking and if you decide on legal action seek local legal counsel before attempting to sue. They could advise you better on the situation they any speculation we can offer. If you sued prematurely you could be liable for court costs and the defendants time and expense. Again things to discuss with relevant legal counsel.

Not trying to rain on your parade I hope you can recoup your losses, I would just hate to see you throw good money after bad.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Yes, 6 months is a much shorter fuse. But still means the outfitter has not stolen your deposit. You do need to firm up your travel plans, such as booking flights and maybe hotel for before and after the hunt. I know I wouldn’t be happy with no communication at this point. Have someone else call or email them.