Barnes or Woodleigh .416 Rigby ammo

[John338]

I am off to Africa for a Cape Buffalo hunt and am in a quandary about ammo for my .416 Rigby and need some sound, experience based advice.
I have some Woodleigh 450 grain RNSN projectiles and some Barnes 400 grain TSX projectiles. Both shoot very well in my rifle ( sub moa).
I have read some disturbing reports of Barnes projectiles failing in particular on Cape Buffalo. I have used Barnes in all my rifles from .223 to .416 with absolutely no failures. I have shot Water Buffalo in Australias Northern Territory with them and no issues ( controlled experiment of 2!)
I read in Kevin Robertsons book “Africa’s most dangerous” that he said “Woodleigh 450grain projectile at 2150fps would be a real “Buffalo thumper”!
So question for everyone is:
Which projectile and why?”

 

[deewayne2003]

No practical first hand experience; but the man I bought my first .416 Rigby from had shot over 20 Cape buffalo and in the components that came with the rifle were 450gr Woodleigh RNSN when I asked him about how they were on Buffalo he said.

“Those 450gr Woodleighs hit HARD! You hit them in the boiler room with those and you can tell it just makes them shiver like a boxer that took a hard kidney punch.”

He also recommended Reloader #22 powder which is in woodleighs load manual.

 

[John338]

No practical first hand experience; but the man I bought my first .416 Rigby from had shot over 20 Cape buffalo and in the components that came with the rifle were 450gr Woodleigh RNSN when I asked him about how they were on Buffalo he said.

“Those 450gr Woodleighs hit HARD! You hit them in the boiler room with those and you can tell it just makes them shiver like a boxer that took a hard kidney punch.”

He also recommended Reloader #22 powder which is in woodleighs load manual.

Thanks you very much, that is just the sort of information I need and reinforces what Doctor Robertson said in his book. I use 86 grains of ADI AR 2209 powder for a muzzle velocity of 2163fps. Almost exactly what the good Doctor ordered! The big game changer is the very high SD of .372 of the Woodleigh 450 grainers.

 

[Dr Ray]

No practical first hand experience; but the man I bought my first .416 Rigby from had shot over 20 Cape buffalo and in the components that came with the rifle were 450gr Woodleigh RNSN when I asked him about how they were on Buffalo he said.

“Those 450gr Woodleighs hit HARD! You hit them in the boiler room with those and you can tell it just makes them shiver like a boxer that took a hard kidney punch.”

He also recommended Reloader #22 powder which is in woodleighs load manual.

Woodleigh wanted me to test their 450 grain bullets in 416. Then along came covid!
Haven’t had a chance to test on wicked buffs!

 

[deewayne2003]

John338…. Mind sharing what model of .416 you are using?

 

[Dakota Hunter]

I am taking the 450 Woodleigh for my up coming Cape buffalo in June. I’ll be shooting them out of my Heym Martini Express in 416 Rigby. I used this gun in November to shoot my lion,eland,gemsbok,black wildebeest & 2 warthogs so I’m pretty confident with its capability at this point.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I've used alot of Woodleighs in a lot of different calibres and all have performed very well. I have decided to go with heavy for calibre 550grn Woodleighs in my 450 Rigby for buffalo this year, I haven't used this specific projectile in the field yet but I have all the confidence in the world with it. I would go with the 450grn Woodleighs if you are specifically targeting buffalo, I am sure you will not be disappointed.

 

[John338]

I've used alot of Woodleighs in a lot of different calibres and all have performed very well. I have decided to go with heavy for calibre 550grn Woodleighs in my 450 Rigby for buffalo this year, I haven't used this specific projectile in the field yet but I have all the confidence in the world with it. I would go with the 450grn Woodleighs if you are specifically targeting buffalo, I am sure you will not be disappointed.

Thanks for the reply, I have used a lot of Barnes in a lot of different calibres and all have performed well. I am concerned that, anecdotally, the Barnes sometimes fail on shoulder shots on Cape Buffalo ( by my research the most common and best presentation). I am confident from the observation of Doctor Robertson that the Woodleighs will perform and I am sure that, as you say, I will not be disappointed, however just want to hear what others have experienced with the Woodleighs before I make the final choice.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Aint nothing wrong with doing your research

 

[Desperatezulu]

Thanks for the reply, I have used a lot of Barnes in a lot of different calibres and all have performed well. I am concerned that, anecdotally, the Barnes sometimes fail on shoulder shots on Cape Buffalo ( by my research the most common and best presentation).

What were the failures? I am pretty sceptical of these anecdotes - Barnes TSX are one of the toughest and most reliable expanding monos. If in any doubt, ask your PH which bullet he'd prefer you to use and go with that. I'd be surprised if you didn't get a big thumbs up on both/either of your choices.

If the Barnes were proven to have failed to penetrate on shoulder shots then I'd agree with your concern. If they penetrated completely then the 'failure' is questionable, especially if the evidence is based on an inspection of a dead buffalo. (As the saying goes, in which part of the killing of the buffalo did the bullet fail?).
Yes Barnes do penetrate well - but even the Woodleighs can do a complete pass through if no meaningful bone is encountered.

Far more animals are lost by poor bullet placement than by poor bullet performance. Barnes are one of the best - use them with confidence!

 

[Frederik]

Both bullets should work just fine the Barnes should out openetrate the Woodleigh so that migt cause issues when the bullets exists with other buffalo behind. But then again the 450gr will also possibly pass on a bull standing boradside.

So in the current situation with bullet shortage I would take what I have the most off.

Scenario no.2 are you going to shoot other animals while on the hunt then the 400gr bullet would do better on longer shots out with plainsgame.

 

[John338]

I am taking the 450 Woodleigh for my up coming Cape buffalo in June. I’ll be shooting them out of my Heym Martini Express in 416 Rigby. I used this gun in November to shoot my lion,eland,gemsbok,black wildebeest & 2 warthogs so I’m pretty confident with its capability at this point.

Wow! outstanding work! really love to hear how they perform on Cape Buffalo, good luck and shot straight!

What were the failures? I am pretty sceptical of these anecdotes - Barnes TSX are one of the toughest and most reliable expanding monos. If in any doubt, ask your PH which bullet he'd prefer you to use and go with that. I'd be surprised if you didn't get a big thumbs up on both/either of your choices.

If the Barnes were proven to have failed to penetrate on shoulder shots then I'd agree with your concern. If they penetrated completely then the 'failure' is questionable, especially if the evidence is based on an inspection of a dead buffalo. (As the saying goes, in which part of the killing of the buffalo did the bullet fail?).
Yes Barnes do penetrate well - but even the Woodleighs can do a complete pass through if no meaningful bone is encountered.

Far more animals are lost by poor bullet placement than by poor bullet performance. Barnes are one of the best - use them with confidence!

The failures I have heard about have been “anecdotal” (as is all things we haven’t done ourselves, I suppose!) but were on shoulder shots on Cape Buffalo that reportedly hit bone close to the surface so no hydraulic effect to open the TSX. So just enough reports to give me a bit of concern hence the question asked to those with experience that I lack.
As you say way more animals lost to poor shot placement than bullet failure so reasonable confident that with correct placement then both will wok equally well. Thanks so much for the input.

 

[John338]

Both bullets should work just fine the Barnes should out openetrate the Woodleigh so that migt cause issues when the bullets exists with other buffalo behind. But then again the 450gr will also possibly pass on a bull standing boradside.

So in the current situation with bullet shortage I would take what I have the most off.

Scenario no.2 are you going to shoot other animals while on the hunt then the 400gr bullet would do better on longer shots out with plainsgame.

I agree that the TSX will out penetrate the Woodleigh so am leaning towards the Woodleighs as we will be hunting herds and groups of Dugga boys so don’t want to over penetrate.
Yes I have Kudu on the menu and think the 450 Woodleighs will be okay out to about 150 (zero at 100m, 3” low at 150 and 9” low at 200m). Given 150m is a long shot in Africa the Woodleighs should punch both tickets if I do my bit right!