Anyone Using a .500 NE *Also* as a .500 BPE?

[Tom Leoni]

All - I'm debating the purchase of a lovely .500 NE falling block.

I'm sufficiently familiar with cartridge history and handloading to know that the same case can also be used with the older BPE or Nitro-for-Black load, typically a 440gr bullet traveling somewhere just under 2,000 fps. And because it's a single shot, I don't have to worry as much about point of impact, since the sights are adjustable. Also, I see that handloading the .500 is surprisingly less expensive than doing so for other large-bore nitro express cartridges.

Does any of you have experience (or thoughts)? I envision such rifle to be quite a versatile number--perfect for dangerous game when loaded as a .500 NE and more than satisfactory for other game at moderate distances with the Nitro-for-Black load. Can anyone reinforce this opinion or mine--or burst my bubble?

Should I pull the trigger (so to speak) on this rifle?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I hope you end up with it. It would go great with that beautiful 375 flanged of yours

 

[matt85]

First, is the rifle heavy enough for the 500 NE cartridge (11+ pounds)? Many large bore single shot rifles are much too light for their cartridge. The Ruger #1 in 458 Lott comes to mind!

Second, I don't advise using a single shot rifle for DG unless you expect your PH to also shoot your animal. Even the powerful 500 NE will often not bring down large dangerous game instantly without a brain/spine shot and you cannot guarantee those 100%. My buffalo still ran close to 200 yards after getting hit with a 505 Gibbs (570gr A-frame at 2300fps). it completely shattered the leg and punched a three finger wide hole through the lungs.

Other than those complaints id say a 500 NE single would be a fun to use on large game and in 500 BPE form it would be great for medium game.

-Matt

 

[Tom Leoni]

@Wishfulthinker580 - I hope so too. The hardest part is to convince myself I need another rifle!

@matt85 - yes, it weighs a scant 9lbs (ouch), hence my desire to use it mainly as a .500 Nitro for Black (also because, realistically, my opportunities to hunt dangerous game are much fewer than plains game or deer here at home). For years now, I've done most of my hunting with a single shot rifle and the older I get, the more I become intrigued by the idea of making that one shot count. I agree with you that for a modern safari goer using a single shot on dangerous game, backup is a great insurance. I would probably want it even if I was using a bolt.

I am laboring under the assumption that, like the .500 NE, the .500 BPE also calls for a 1:15" twist, in which case stabilizing the 440gr bullet would not be an issue. With this setup, shooting this rifle would not at all be unpleasant.

 

[matt85]

9lb is too light for a 500 NE. I do not believe in the concept of "practicing with a lower recoil cartridge". The only way to actually practice with a DG rifle is to use full power loads in order to properly prepare you for the recoil in the field. You should be able to fire 20 full power rounds in a outing without issue. At 9 pounds the gun will likely be outright painful to shoot once, let alone 20 times in a single sitting.

I wasn't referring to having someone backing you up, I meant having them shoot the animal right after you. You will not have the ability to make a following shot so someone else will need to do it for you. If your shot is bad and the animal runs off, it could easily kill the next person it comes across and you would be responsible. I'm not questioning your shooting skills, but things happen in the field and even the most skilled shooter occasionally needs to fire a second shot.

-Matt

 

[cal pappas]

I have dies and bullets in the classifieds.

 

[zephyr]

You can go to Grahame Wrights book and use Nitro for Black loads or you can use either Trailboss or 5744, you should be able to move either a cast or jacketed bullet somewhere in the vicinity of 1500fps
TrailBoss
!!! As Wright will tell us never compress a Trail Boss load
I shoot a lot of Trail Boss and 5744 reduced loads in my 450NE, 458 Lot and 505 Gibbs .....

Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at
this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your
maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!
Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting
load.
Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate
reduced load.
IMR 5744
Follow the same procedure as above but multiply by 40% to get your starting load
Hope this helps
Happy shooting

 

[Tom Leoni]

Hi @zephyr - I have Wright’s second (1999) edition, which unfortunately predates Trail Boss and 5744. Are those 70% and 40% rules something he discusses in subsequent publications?

Also, no filler required for these two powders, correct? (Incidentally, I have tried to see if Mr Seyfried had some experience with 5744 in NFB loads but he told me that he usually sticks with 4198 / RL7 type powders with poly fillers.)

Reason why I’m determined to try out the Tr. Boss and 5744 is that they seem ideally suited for use in such large cases without filler and without giving ignition problems—but I’m finding it hard to lay my hands on any published data. Even the powder manufacturers were no help.

Any further thoughts?

 

[zephyr]

I've noticed varying opinions on the use of reduce loads for DG Rifles Bolt and Doubles..
Here is my reason for reduced loads...
When we had unlimited supply of reloading components in preparation for a DG Safari I would shoot twice a week if not more. Before discovering Trail Boss i would shoot a number of rounds through my Big Bore, off sticks, free hand, practice loading drills and any other silly thing I could think of...than finish with a a couple dozen rounds .22 rim fire .... The reason; to re-establish good shooting technique and muscle memory..
When I discovered Trail Boss I was able to finish my shooting with a reduced load using the same Gun, weight, sights and trigger pretty much replacing the use of the .22

Tom Leoni​

to answer some of your questions you can find the Trail Boss formula on their Web site you use to be able to find the same for 5744
You do not need filler for either powder
Terry Weiland did and article a couple of years ago I think in hand loader on reduced loads you can also find the info in his book Dangerous Game Rifles ... He prefers 5744
I've been using Trail Boss for at least 10 years in my 450NE, 458 Lott and my 505 Gibbs because it was easier to find at the beggining of this journey ....

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/trail-boss-reduced-loads-2018-2.pdf

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

I've shot these loads with all types of bullets from Cast to Solids the formula remains the same
Make a mark on the brass where the bottom of the seated bullet would be
Fill to mark than weigh powder
ForTrail Boss multiply by .70 for 5744 multiply by .40 that will be your starting load ""Do Not Compress""
Have fun

 

[Tom Leoni]

I've noticed varying opinions on the use of reduce loads for DG Rifles Bolt and Doubles..
Here is my reason for reduced loads...
When we had unlimited supply of reloading components in preparation for a DG Safari I would shoot twice a week if not more. Before discovering Trail Boss i would shoot a number of rounds through my Big Bore, off sticks, free hand, practice loading drills and any other silly thing I could think of...than finish with a a couple dozen rounds .22 rim fire .... The reason; to re-establish good shooting technique and muscle memory..
When I discovered Trail Boss I was able to finish my shooting with a reduced load using the same Gun, weight, sights and trigger pretty much replacing the use of the .22

Tom Leoni​

to answer some of your questions you can find the Trail Boss formula on their Web site you use to be able to find the same for 5744
You do not need filler for either powder
Terry Weiland did and article a couple of years ago I think in hand loader on reduced loads you can also find the info in his book Dangerous Game Rifles ... He prefers 5744
I've been using Trail Boss for at least 10 years in my 450NE, 458 Lott and my 505 Gibbs because it was easier to find at the beggining of this journey ....

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/trail-boss-reduced-loads-2018-2.pdf

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

I've shot these loads with all types of bullets from Cast to Solids the formula remains the same
Make a mark on the brass where the bottom of the seated bullet would be
Fill to mark than weigh powder
ForTrail Boss multiply by .70 for 5744 multiply by .40 that will be your starting load ""Do Not Compress""
Have fun

Thank you @zephyr . Posts like this are worth their weight in gold--great that you also sent me the link to the Trail Boss page as well as pointing me towards Mr. Weiland's writings.

BTW, I also subscribe to your ideas about using reduced loads. Especially when as such they make perfect all-round non-dangerous game cartridges (and in the case of the .500 NFB some would argue even for some dangerous species).

 

[zephyr]

Shooting my 450NE using Trail Boss and a 405gr cast bullet at approx 1400fps the round impacts about 3"s low, But if I flip up the 300yard sight it shoots to point of aim

 

[Tom Leoni]

Shooting my 450NE using Trail Boss and a 405gr cast bullet at approx 1400fps the round impacts about 3"s low, But if I flip up the 300yard sight it shoots to point of aim

Thank you! BTW, do you use standard or magnum primers for .450 (and larger) cartridges with Tr. Boss and 5744?

 

[zephyr]

Magnum Primers

 

[Brian]

Tom, I think that rifle would be an excellent rifle. I use a single shot rifle in 500-110 ( 50-110 Win. necked down to a true .500 cal.) for cape buffalo. 410 CEB Raptor bullets, 1,900 fps. It kills the quickly with a decent shoulder shot at close range. Always a one shot kill.
I also use a 577 in a single shot. 700 gr Peregrine Bushmaster bullet at 1,800 fps on cape buffalo.

Nine lbs. is OK for a 500 NE, especially at the velocities we are talking about. ( kicks bad off a bench, Nothing to it, off-hand in the field.) With medium loads it kicks like a 9 lb. 416 Rigby or 458 Lott. Maybe less. Nothing to worry about!

Stalking close to a herd of cape buffalo with a good PH and Tracker and peeling an old one out with a single shot rifle is as good as it gets! I have never had to hit one twice when I use a good bullet at close range. Also, with practice, you can shoot, reload and shoot a falling block a lot faster than most people realize. ( 3 seconds)
I just tell my PH ahead of time, "If you think I need a little help, hand him one and I will have a third shot in him so fast you will think it's an echo. But, a second shot is seldom needed if you put a good .500 cal. bullet in the shoulder at close range. Period.

Brian

 

[264]

Ive used a mates 500 BPE a Thomas Blissett SXS, he runs 440 gr woodleighs out of it. We have taken several water buff bulls with it not a power house but with careful placement its effective Heres a few pics Cheers Mick
20m didn't get up from bed.

Chris owner of rifle with good bull

recovered woodleigh 440gr RNSP

This one took a few

meatie Chris took for dinner

140m on run, scrubber cow

bull on right 500BPE left 9.3x62, bulls were fighting


loads and Thomas Blissett 500BPE

 

[Tom Leoni]

@Brian - Thank you for sharing your experience. I finally took my .500 to the range a few weeks back, but I was able to only get two shots with a 420gr hard cast bullet. It appears that on my particular rifle the primer strike is too light. I also tried a Barnes 440gr flat nosed jacketed soft point, but all I got were clicks.

I'm sending it out to have this and a couple other problems corrected. I have been going back and forth on whether or not to scope it, but in the end the two shots I did manage to get off hit about 8" high at 50 yards, so I'm thinking that a scope would give me the regulation I need for any particular load I may use--including the full-house .500 NE, will I ever venture into that level.

BTW, off the bench the two shots were fairly mild, but then again I was using a 5744 load so no surprise there.

@264 - gorgeous rifle and a truly perfect mushroom with that Woodleigh, Mick! Nice buffs too!

 

[Brian]

Tom, Sorry to say that I forgot all about this post. I am coming back, hat in hand, in hopes that you will still talk to me, My apologies!

How is it going with your .500?
The recoil is not too bad, right ? I now don't use a bench at all for sighting in and load development, sticks are good enough. I plan to shoot all my buffalo at 50 yds. ( I can hear God laughing at me as I write.)

A good 400 grain .510 cal bullet at 1800-1900 fps will roll up a cape buffalo with a decent shoulder shot. ( I like Cutting Edge Bullets, Raptor and Solid. The 410 grain Raptor usually kills on the spot for me with a broadside shoulder shot at 1900 fps, 50 yds.

If you go for a scope that Leopold 2.5 has a nice long eye relief. If your eyes can see iron sight I recommend them. Maybe a peep sight? I really like them.
I have now mounted a green dot sight on my 577NE. but have not hunted with it yet. I think it will be perfect.
Skinner peep sights ( I use them) might be perfect for you. Skinner will help you chose the right height of sight for your situation of shooting high. They are price right too. You can hit "minute of beer can" at 65yds with peep sights.

Happy hunting. Brian