Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by GA Hunter, Feb 14, 2019.
Thanks for sharing!
If anyone is interested in this discipline, there is a two day school at Williamsport's 1000 yard range. You will load and shoot your instructor's rifle and break clay birds on the back bank, over 1000 yards. The loading class is in the morning and you will shoot and load in the afternoon and then there is an impromptu match on Sunday morning. A lot of fun with the some of the world's best long range shooters.
Take the 4 day Safari Prep class at FTW Ranch in Texas and you will shoot at 1000 yards with your own rifle. We shot prone with bipods. Our rifles were stock plains game guns. 300WMs, 6.5CRs, 06s, 270s and other calibers. I used a Win 70 7RM with Barnes 160 g TSX. After what I thought was a helluva lucky shot, Dave, the instructor said "Prove it. Do it again." I did--several times as did everyone in class. We started on 15 inch steel plates and worked down to 9 inch. Of course, we had spotters to give us dope. It was a real eye opener experience. I would never try a shot like that in the field but it was great to know my rifle is capable of a 7 or 8 inch group at that range. Kinda fun, too.
I have been doing long range shooting for around 50 years +and in the time I have only ever taken shots that availed themselves to me that I had practiced at that range or further and proved to myself before hand that I could make them by taking out 6" targets with a rifle and round big enough to get the job done.
I have said many times that hitting is one thing, but hitting and killing is quite another.
I wonder why your instructed would ever have you take a 1000 yard shot at anything ? It simply doesn't make any sense at all and may possibly put it is someones head that they can actually make a 1000 yard kill shot without the expense and time to have a rifle built in a suitably powerful cartridge and practice to assure long range accuracy.
So ain't I the fool for cutting back to 800 when I missed my 5 shot 6" or less at 1000 yards 3 times in a row, and then cutting back again when missing my ,5 shot , 4" or less group at 800 yards 3 times in a row.
I was down to 600 yards and had no difficulty hitting 2" forever,but having g built and set up my rifle for 1000 yard kills I offered my $10,000 plus shooting iron to my life long friends son to shoot at 1000 which did nothing but prove it was me that wasnt up to the task so that weapon now lives in Texas and has done fine killing at 1000 yard+ ever since.
In my way of thinking, anything over 200 yards is long range.
What I just don't understand is how a bunch of guys with off the shelf rifles and ordinary scopes and rounds could immediately go to a range, dial in and start shoot 7" groups at 1000 yards is absolutely mind boggling.
I have specialized hand machined psychotically tight tolerance quipment just to assure that when I mount a scope it is a close as possible to being 100% aligned to the bore so that when moving the scopes turrets that they stay in alignment with the bore and the bullets go where you want them to, but yet somehow a group of guys with scopes mounted at the kitchen table with a screwdriver from the junk drawer and half a bottle of 4 roses have done equally as well.
The fella that this thread is about is a great shot and what he did is not luck by any stretch of the imagination. When a fella shoots any animal at any distance and kills it with one shot it is not luck either.
Awhile back I posted the results of an impromptu range day where I shot a boomer offhand and with sticks at 50 to 200 yards at 4" paper . I did not do as well as I would have liked and said that I would not go slaying anything until I could better my accuracy. I also said that I stunk on ice.
I offered others to try what I was doing and see how they did, but like " one day" said he didn't believe that there would be many takers and he correctly called it ......not a one participated. I do and have ran and was handsomely paid for teaching people how to shoot at animals and will say that not a one ever did well in the drills to start with and I most emphatically say that I have never even mentioned to any of the students of normal hunting shooting skills to even think about wasting ammo shooting at a K.
About 40 years ago a fella came over the camp and was interested in my long range iron. He himself was a good hunter and shot and as the evening wore on and the bottle got empty he started allowing the booze doing the talking and said that he could hit anything I could with his 30-30 that I could with my spring buffered Unertal topped 30-338 win. Within 3 shots.
He lost and payed his wager. He asked me what he did wrong and other than the obvious I asked him how much over did he aim. He said as much as 20 feet, but never saw a hit. That was easy to answer as I told him that he should have started aiming about another 80 feet high and went from there. The round drops about 1200 inches at 1000 yards.
I gotta ask...how did any of you guys know where to start aiming? And how didn't you all run out of scope adjustment?
Anyway...... All of you guys are better shots then I have ever been and with very , very little practice could all most definitely be the finest shots in the world
Interesting post, tanks for sharing it. Had no idea the 1000 yard record had shrunk so much the last few years. Your friend is a hell of a good reloader and shooter!
No way I could do it so congrats to your friend.
This was shot using a heavy rifle on sand bags. The object is to take away all of the human interaction and let the gun do all the work. If you search youtube you will find all kinds of video on Benchrest matches.
Maybe there is some parallax in the magnifier.
It looks like the group is about 6 bullet diameters wide. That has the group at 36mm assuming a 6mm bullet is 6mm.
(Not that it matters)
Group measuring software: https://ontargetshooting.com/
Thanks for that. As someone who has never participated it is an interesting to see the method.
I guess my groups are better than I ever thought.
I guess some clarification is in order. Rough chronology: In the 4 day class we first went to the cleaning shed and cleaned our rifles so everyone started with a clean gun. Next to the short range where we sighted in at 50 and 100 yards off the bench. We also did some steel plate work there out to 350 yards. The next stop was the 1500 yard range where we started at 200 and worked out to 1000 in increments of about 200 yards. We could try the 1500 but I passed. The staff had range cards for each of us based on rifle, caliber, scope, and bullets. We had spotters giving us windage and elevation dope. That range is notorious for gusting crosswinds. To hit a 12 inch plate, aim 3 feet right at 1000 yards. After a few rounds we were on our own and had to figure our own dope. The spotter would tell us approximately where we hit.
There were two classes there. One was a precision rifle class and our hunter class. The last afternoon we had a friendly competition between the two classes on the 1500 yard range. We were given a target ( colored steel plate) at a certain range. We had to find the target, put one round on it and within 5 seconds put a second round on it. Not too bad out to 500 yards. After that it became all kinds of fun. Find your steel, figure dope, judge crosswind and get two rounds on target in 5 seconds. Sometimes it took 3 shots before running out of time.
The 2 day class was pretty much the same but without the class competition. There was only our class.
These range times were not to train us for long shots but to give us a chance to see just what we could do under varying conditions. It was strongly suggested by the staff that we not try that in the field. Shoot what you are comfortable with. My longest ranged kill shot to date is 268 yards at a springbok. Not something I would routinely do but I know I can do it if necessary.
I wanted to go back again this year before my next safari but they have no openings. I've been twice and strongly recommend FTW to anyone going to Africa or just wanting to hone your skills be it your first or one of numerous hunts. For more info contact Tim Fallon, the owner of FTW , Larry Weishuhn or Craig Boddington. Larry and Craig are regulars there.
I am amazed at that 1000 yard group Mike Wilson shot. That is superhuman considering all the factors involved.
I am happy that you had a good time throwing some lead down range, but I am no closer yet to understanding the rational for wasting time and ammo shooting at a distance that you will never take large game Pg in Africa with that round.
Sure! You can take that 600 yard killer and shoot at a k, but with as much power as it has lost in flight it is more of a paper puncher than killer.
And as you are an Africa hunting veteran have you really found a lot of 1000 yard takable shots? And if you have and went prone were they still take able? It has been my experience that a 100 feet shot is more likely to come your way than a 1000 yard one.
The fella who made the group that spawned this topic uses a 6mmBR AI which is a good ground adjustment and long distance paper puncher that can go the distance and still not break back down inside the sound barrier before it reaches where it's supposed to go. It is easy on barrels compared to a round like the 30-378 which can kill a barrel in less than a thousand rounds.
I am still somewhat amazed that no one ran out of scope adjustment.
Von, I see your point about "wasting time and ammo". To some, it may seem like that but to me it was a valuable lesson in assuming a solid position, breath control and trigger press which is necessary from muzzle to infinity, be it prone , sticks or other position. You are correct in your assessment of taking long shots in the field. I can't imagine a situation where i would take a shot over 350 yards. Even that is outside my comfort zone. I try to stalk a lot closer than that. After all, most of the fun is outsmarting your quarry in his own environment.
One of the reasons I passed on the 1500 yard target was I didn't have enough scope adjustment left with a 200 yard zero and I wasn't about to try Kentucky elevation.
Newboomer I completely understand. Mike Wilson and I spent a heck of a lot of time shooting just about every rifle we owned at ranges out to 1000 yds before either of us had the notion to compete. We NEVER considered it a waste of time or ammunition. We didn’t consider it practice for anything. We just did it for fun. Eventually Mike got the bug to compete and I got the bug to try prairie dog hunting. From time to time we still gather at that same range with no general purpose in mind other than to shoot, tell lies, and have fun.
This is so far beyond my skill level that it hard to believe! That is absolutely amazing! Congratulations to Mr Wilson!
hey now Jake, no need to get personal!!!!
Truly impressive. A friend of mine cleaned a course in Texas to 2400 yards a couple of years ago. The only shooter to ever do it. It’s a very interesting discipline.
Great shooting to your friend.
1.06” at 100 yards is a good group for me.
I have gotten better, I even once got a 5 shot group at .47 once, but my average group size at 100 is a smidge over that.
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