Am I "beating a dead horse?"

Shootist43

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The bolt on my CZ 550 chambered in 404 Jeffery does not "run" as smooth as I'd like. But then I got to thinking how smooth is smooth. I contacted Von Gruff and asked him for some hints as to where to proceed. Accordingly I've purchased some layout bluing to apply to the bolt and am prepared to do that and then insert and cycle the bolt to see what might be rubbing and polish the areas indicated. The question becomes when to stop "polishing" the bolt and action mating surfaces. I'm looking for a pragmatic test rather than somebody saying "when you're satisfied with it." I was thinking that their might be an angle at which an open bolt should be free running. Last week someone posted a video of a MS bolt closing and locking itself when the muzzle was tipped below horizontal by 15/20 degrees. For those of you that have what you consider satisfactory bolt actions how far do you need to tip the muzzle and or the stock for the bolt to travel freely of its' own volition. I suspect the bolts on upper end rifles might move more freely at lesser angles. To that end "am I beating a dead horse" in trying to get my CZ to do the same?
 

Hogpatrol

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What kind of lube are you using on the bolt? A lot of issues are caused by insufficient lubrication.
 

Shootist43

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Generally Hoppe's gun oil. No grease as that attracts dust & dirt in my opinion.
 

Ridgewalker

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My Tikka’s are the slickest actions of any I have owned. I’ll try to test them today and get back with the info.
 

Hogpatrol

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I'm not familiar with the CZ centerfires but do have a few rimfires. Sometimes a not so smooth action can be cause by distortion of the action due to poor or no bedding or too much torque on the action screws. Is the bolt rough when the barreled action is out of the stock?
 

Shootist43

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375 Ruger Fan, that would have worked as well but I don't know where to find that emogee.
 

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Shootist43

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I used layout bluing on the bolt like Von Gruff suggested. The culprits were the tops and bottoms of the locking lugs. The bolt runs a lot freer now with no "chatter." However with the bolt open it still will not move of it's own volition even with the rifle in a vertical position.
 

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My test results:
Tikka 300 WM=18*
Tikka 7mm-08=16*
Kimber Talkeetna=55*
Kimber Montana 243=22*
Remington 78 30-06=18*

None of the bolts rotated. And no cartridges were used for additional weight.

The Kimbers sort of hang up on the thick part of the extractor. They move to there, then you have to just pass that and they finish.
I did a mix of brands just to get an idea. The only CZs I have are rimfires and a varmint weight 527 in 223. It’s bolt is so light I doubt it will move at all.

Hope this helps! Keep us up to date on what you find out.
 

375 Ruger Fan

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@Ridgewalker for the data for your various rifles, is the 18*, 16*, etc...........are those degrees of tilt for the rifle from horizontal until the bolt slides closed? If yes, then 4 of your rifles are about the same and the Talkeetna is bringing up the rear, base on this test. Is that your interpretation of the results?
 

Ridgewalker

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@Ridgewalker for the data for your various rifles, is the 18*, 16*, etc...........are those degrees of tilt for the rifle from horizontal until the bolt slides closed? If yes, then 4 of your rifles are about the same and the Talkeetna is bringing up the rear, base on this test. Is that your interpretation of the results?

All from horizontal to muzzle down. And yes, the Kimbers aren’t comparable to the others. But in all fairness, none of the others have all the friction from long extractor springs with substantially more edges and surface area. That’s the nature of CRF vs push feed. JMO, but I don’t believe a CRF can ever be as smooth as a push feed. Just to many more parts as in edges and surface area. Not really a bad thing I don’t think.

Oh yes, and the Talkeetna in 375 H&H has a longer bolt which binds a bit until the angle is steep enough to break loose. The other bolts are shorter. The Tikka’s are slick as glass and the old Remy 78 (cheap clone of their 700) has probably polished itself from many years of usage.
 
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BRICKBURN

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It's in the Original Smilies pulldown. :S Beat Dead Horse:

Screen Shot 2019-01-16 at 15.37.56.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-01-16 at 15.38.50.jpg
 

Little Bwana

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The bolt on my CZ 550 chambered in 404 Jeffery does not "run" as smooth as I'd like. But then I got to thinking how smooth is smooth. I contacted Von Gruff and asked him for some hints as to where to proceed. Accordingly I've purchased some layout bluing to apply to the bolt and am prepared to do that and then insert and cycle the bolt to see what might be rubbing and polish the areas indicated. The question becomes when to stop "polishing" the bolt and action mating surfaces. I'm looking for a pragmatic test rather than somebody saying "when you're satisfied with it." I was thinking that their might be an angle at which an open bolt should be free running. Last week someone posted a video of a MS bolt closing and locking itself when the muzzle was tipped below horizontal by 15/20 degrees. For those of you that have what you consider satisfactory bolt actions how far do you need to tip the muzzle and or the stock for the bolt to travel freely of its' own volition. I suspect the bolts on upper end rifles might move more freely at lesser angles. To that end "am I beating a dead horse" in trying to get my CZ to do the same?


I had the same problem. I called CZ, they paid for shipping and they smoothed it up at home-base, which kept my warrantee. It only took about 3 weeks so you may just want to call and complain... it worked out great for me- no $$ outlaid and a VERY smooth action. Hope this helps.
 

sestoppelman

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If it does what it is supposed to do, ie., feed, chamber, extract and eject with no issues, I would be happy and just let the bolt break in over time, lots of cycles will do wonders with a little oil here and there. My Whitworth was pretty sticky when I first got it back in.... uh lets see now, oh yeah.. 1984! I just sat around at night watching the boob tube and working the action and it slicked right up. Never tried these drop tests on it or any other rifle with a big claw extractor. Rem 700 bolts drop easy don't they?
 

ve7poi

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Magazine follower may prevent bolt drop remember you have a controlled round action. Many years ago some came with a bolt stop when you emptied the mag as a reminder to fill it again.
 

postoak

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What would cause a rifle to close AND LOCK?
 

sestoppelman

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I haven't tried it but I have an old super slick 1903 Springfield that might do it. Bolt motion is like oiled snot!o_Oo_O:D
 

Shootist43

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Postoak, AH member Brian Rothhammer posted an article about Mannlicher Shonauer Prewar Models on January 7th of this year. In that thread there is a VIDEO of a MS rifle bolt closing and locking itself when tipped forward or down at the muzzle. I believe the video is titled "The old MS bolt closes and locks by itself trick. That rifle utilizes a rotary magazine. I suspect that has something to do with the bolt locking itself. I don't know how to find the thread or article number or I'd supply a link to it.
 

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What would cause a rifle to close AND LOCK?

Mannlicher-Schoenauer will do it...

It will do the trick even with a round chambering.

HWL
 
 

 

 

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