Africa...when will you be priced out??

[375Fox]

If ngo groups cared about the animals they’d have hunting everywhere. They know the data. They don’t care about the animals they just want control over people

Not all NGO groups are anti-hunting. I’ve hunted with 2 operators where NGOs have committed massive amounts of money to the areas.

 

[Killingtime]

Not all NGO groups are anti-hunting. I’ve hunted with 2 operators where NGOs have committed massive amounts of money to the areas.

I apologize I wasn’t trying to say all ngo’s and that’s my fault for not distinguishing the two groups. I know there are great groups like RMEF

 

[LivingTheDream]

I'll go along with you, except for this part.

I have to somewhat as a whole disagree with your figures. Simply because it depends on age groups, marital status, lifestyle, and financials income to debt ratios.

People who have a $50k income. All or most of their long term debts are paid off. Their monthly costs of living expenses are 50% or less than their monthly income. These people, if they desire, should be able to budget a $10-$15k hunt easily every 2 - 4 years and still live comfortably. Those with higher income $100k+ would have an even higher income to debt ratio and should be able to budget an yearly $10-$15k hunt or a $25-$50k+ hunt every 2-3 years.

The flip side is that people have to decide what Their priorities are. Those people making $100k++ that feel they need a new car every year, the latest trending gadgets, etc, that have a higher than 50% monthly debt to income can find it hard to budget a 7 day $5k beach vacation +/- 4 hours from home.

Generally speaking the younger to early middle age groups have higher debt to income than generally speaking late middle age and retired age groups who have a higher income to debt ratio.

People have different priorities and views of what they want in life. Some will live their dream, others will just keep on dreaming about their dream.

I can under 100% agree with this. A 100k salary in the northeast is probably lower middle class (I know it sounds crazy), but given rent, housing costs and daycare (if they have children) it is a lot.

When I went to buy my first house, I was told I could afford 500k by a loan officer, I knew I could afford 300k. That debt to income ratio is critical.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Negative it wasn’t 17A

Roger that. Those prices match what I see on the refuge.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Sorry for getting off track from the OP, but I Will probably say never will I be priced out. I might just go to hunt birds, or shoot plains game and take picture, but I imagine I will still keep going.

I haven't had great luck in western draws but I have gone and shot does or hunted upland birds, but mostly spending time with dad, the costs were pretty much nothing, other than the gas and hotels.

I have a bucket list of things I want to do and places I want to see, that list is getting shorter and think I will enjoy just going to Africa with no plan and no list, just taking a gun for walk and listening to doves, and having a drink by a campfire, it sounds like a nice time.

 

[Major Bonkers]

Firstly, I ran the numbers on a detailed Kenyan Safari from the numbers another member posted from his grandfathers hunt in the 1970’s with every avenue of inflation and money considered.

I found that when the Hunt was booked in the 70’s it cost 90% of the average American annual house hold income; in 2025 dollars it would cost minimum 600% of the annual income.

Also in 2025 you didn’t get Black Rhino & 100lbs elephant either.

As for more people hunting now than ever, that may be true for hunters from North America, but I’d venture to say that is just an offset of the drastically lower numbers of European, Indian and even Arab hunters that are participating currently in African hunts.

Mr. Deewayne2003 - I do not in any way mean to be rude, but I disagree with you.

Firstly, you are not comparing like with like (as you admit). Kenya was closed to hunting in 1977 (when Madam Kenyatta's work was done) and, as you say, rhino and elephant are off the menu nowadays. These are the supply constraints.

At the same time, the demand has increased. As an example, Britain's wartime exchange controls, imposed in 1939, were removed by (the great) Mrs. Thatcher in 1979. Slowly, Britons could (re)start safari hunting after 40 years of de facto prohibition. (European countries gradually removed their controls during the 1980s.) Here was a new and untapped market for canny South African boers of marginal land!

From my own experience, about 5 years ago I compared the cost of taking a day's driven pheasant shooting in Kent (200 birds) with the cost of a two week safari in South Africa. The cost was broadly similar, including air fares, at around £8,000/ $11,000.

Of course, I am not swanning around Africa like Meryl Streep: I am in a game lodge and taking my sport from the prix fixe and not a la carte. As long as you stick to biltongbeest and boereworsbeest and do not get tempted towards the kudu or buffalo options on the menu, it is quite possible come away with change from £10,000/ $13,500: I do it every year.

From what I can see, the South African game lodges are catering to a much more mass market experience. I will agree with you that at the very top end of the market a traditional safari is much more expensive; but at the lower end of the market it is much more affordable. And this is demonstrated by the large number of sport hunters transiting Johannesburg every year.

Returning to Mr. Shaaka, the OP, he, I suspect, is caught somewhere in the middle. His options are to pay more to maintain his existing standard of hunting or to come and join the hoi polloi like me. Although he will curse me for saying so, he is the victim of the growth of the popularity of safari hunting. Fuelled, incidentally, by sites like this one.

Of course, in another 20 years or so we will all be priced out by hordes of Chinese hunters. That is why I urge all you Americans to vote for the great President Trump, who sees the threat clearly.

 

[Ridge Runner]

This is 100 nonsense!!!

Baby Boomers hold a massive share of US wealth, estimated at $85.4 trillion (over 50% of the total) in early 2026, largely driven by real estate appreciation and stock market gains. Boomer households have a median wealth of roughly \(\$370,000\) to \(\$432,200\), with the top 10% holding 71% of the generation's wealth.

LOL....Those are nice collective figures. Join the real world and look at what the median income is by age brackets within the Boomer generation and you'll find a the majority of older boomers are lower class with an annual income under $40k, the majority of the middle aged bracket average middle class ~$65K, the majority of younger age bracket average upper class at ~$100k, and the average retired upper 10% class at over $100k+.

When Boomers bought their first homes they paid less for their home than what an acre or less costs today.

Sure they could sell, and a lot did, but found out that buying a new equally sized home in the same area would costs more than what they sold their original home for, or relocating to a different area and possibly saving some money from the sale of their previous home or going back into debt to pay for the new equally or lesser size home.

The top 10% of that generation is huge.

Another LOL. By what standards are you comparing apples to apples. We are called "Baby Boomers" for a reason.....for the high influx in the US population. And most of that 10% is "old money" or from the "Roaring '20's" that was available after the Great Depression.

The upper 10% also realized the new 2 income family could afford to pay more for the same product that was costing the same to produce until suppliers started charging more for their goods.

So yeah our upper 10% initiated the need for the 2 income family, leaving the single income families to still make ends meet.

By the way who was doing all the development and house flipping in the run up the housing crash, who was throwing money into .Com stocks, these were the prime earning years of boomers, millenials weren't even in the workforce, and Gen X was really in the infancy of their a careers.

So now boomers are victims? It was later generations that mess it up? How can that be when you say what noble cause you guys had buying assets for your kids? Didn't you guys raise that next generation that is looking for fast money.

Jesus man, just own it like the others saying how they did it through hard work and saving.

This is straying well away from the OP.

If you require further history and economics lessons need to start a separate OP.

Back to topic OP.

 

[SCHUNTER73]

What happens when there is a theoretical transfer of wealth from the boomers to their children (if that happens)? I don’t see prices changing based on the boomers moving on until the is another big recession or a major works event like Covid.

 

[Killingtime]

What happens when there is a theoretical transfer of wealth from the boomers to their children (if that happens)? I don’t see prices changing based on the boomers moving on until the is another big recession or a major works event like Covid.

Half the people or more who inherit money lose and spend it all. Most won’t be able to afford the taxes and insurance on the properties they get or want to deal with it. That trend has already started. On the pro ag podcast he’s had estate attorneys talk about in the Midwest it’s the first thing the kids inheriting the big farms do is ask to sell it because they don’t want to farm or deal with it. That trend hold out for houses across the country as well.

That aside most people have no ties or passion to hunt Africa heck most people don’t even know of capstick, ruarke, or that Hemingway hunted lol in younger generations i know a lot of people that hunt america that are younger and will inherit from there parents. Almost non have any interest in Africa

 

[375Fox]

That aside most people have no ties or passion to hunt Africa heck most people don’t even know of capstick, ruarke, or that Hemingway hunted lol in younger generations i know a lot of people that hunt america that are younger and will inherit from there parents. Almost non have any interest in Africa

There seems to be an assumption only baby boomers spend money to hunt in Africa. This forum has more younger members than many assume. You go to the big shows there are no shortage of younger hunters below 40. There might be less total hunters but I know my grandparents would spend no money to go hunting, my Dad spends some but still very reserved, my generation and those younger seem the most willing to spend money on experiences. There’s no shortage of hunters here who didn’t consider Africa until a lot later in life. I don’t think it’s the doom and gloom many make it out to be. It’s just a change.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I’m in Florida. And yeah I know I can’t import it which is silly to me. Kanati was my option for a mount unfortunately. Polar bear and big horn are my two dream animals. The bear is absolutely getting done just a matter of when and 35k is a fantastic deal. The ram seems like a tag my kids will get before I ever draw.

One buddy hunted Nevada on a half guided hunt for 5k I believe a few years ago and killed on day 4 by himself. He did Wyoming last year in a good unit that he’d been putting in points for awhile and it was 15k minus driving and tip. Definitely pricy but fair chase on big bulls it is what it is. Another buddy’s dad and father in law hunt Colorado and Idaho every year. They’ve killed some monster elk but it’s a place where the ranch basically owns or leases what seems like a few mountains in pretty sure they pay 20k+ but have killed some giants. I’ll ask what the ranch is called but I’m pretty sure they pay by size. I didn’t even know they had those type of operations in the west .

Not trying to burst your bubble but the odds of your children drawing a bighorn ram tag are minuscule unless you started putting them in when they were teenagers, in which case there’s a chance, if they keep up with it and the states like Wyoming don’t regulate or price non-residents out that they draw by the time they’re into their 50’s or 60’s. There biggest issue is the overall number of sheep tags continues to diminish.

There’s a growing trend of western states utilizing non-residents as their Fish & Game piggy bank while slashing opportunities for them.

If you or your children want to sheep hunt, I strongly encourage you to pony up the money and plan/book a hunt for 3-5 years from now. The only sheep that might stay sub $50k the next few years are the high fence desert bighorn sheep in Mexico. Hopefully that takes some pressure off the Dall Sheep as herd numbers are in a major downward spiral, with Alaska closing many areas to both residents and non-residents

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

You never heard of an “add back” in Corp Evaluation? Lol…
You are correct though…what he describes is very aggressive on tax and you would need appropriate structure and legitimate underlying tangential business to justify.
Big difference in Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion….what was described is Evasion IMO
What you describe is legitimate

Yes, familiar from both sides. You have to have exquisite detail but the buyer is still going to haggle it or discount the multiple. Any proof you have it was not a legitimate business expense is also evidence for your tax trial. Happy to avoid either.

Great bull by the way!

 

[Andrew62]

There seems to be an assumption only baby boomers spend money to hunt in Africa. This forum has more younger members than many assume. You go to the big shows there are no shortage of younger hunters below 40. There might be less total hunters but I know my grandparents would spend no money to go hunting, my Dad spends some but still very reserved, my generation and those younger seem the most willing to spend money on experiences. There’s no shortage of hunters here who didn’t consider Africa until a lot later in life. I don’t think it’s the doom and gloom many make it out to be. It’s just a change.

702 people attended last month's SCI banquet near Pittsburgh, PA. 27 youth hunters were each given a .22 rifle, outstanding support of our young people! Certainly seems like a lot of interest in hunting if you ask me!!

 

[TheGrayRider]

I’m not waiting. Ain’t getting no younger or prettier!

Utah - black bear hunt with hounds - May 2026
Zimbabwe - Nonexportable elephant
- September 2027.
Cameroon - Lord Derby Eland - February 2028.

2029, 2030, 2031 - the planning continues…Might hunt Mountain Nyala or baited leopard? Happy hunting to all, TheGrayRider a/k/a Tom.

 

[Rare Breed]

I suspect that, if one were to run the figures taking into account inflation, purchasing power parity, and so on, we are actually living in a period of the cheapest ever safaris.

Looking over Ruarke's Horn of the Hunter, he took a nine-week safari, plus travel time (which, in 1951, must have added at least a week). British hunters, the traditional market, had collapsed with the general impoverishment after the war and currency controls. Nowadays, that travel time is down to one or two days (depending on whether you are flying from Europe or America). I suspect that if you count up the number of people actually flying with guns into Johannesburg and compare that with the number taking safaris across the whole of Africa in the '50s, you will find that there are now at least 10 times as many people taking safaris.

We owe this to the genius of South African game farmers, who have democratised what was once an horrifically expensive proposition. How many of us could afford to take two months off and fund a travelling caravanserai of PH and camp followers?

The downside of this is that, due to the government corruption and mismanagement since decolonisation, the locals are being priced out. I am afraid that no-one wants their Zimbabwe dollar or South African Rand. Your greenback, or even pound and Euro, are preferred.

You are getting a simulacrum of what Ruarke and Hemingway enjoyed, of course - no bouncing in an army surplus lorry and over-heating Land Rover across the majestic veldt. But you get proper beds, ice - ice! - for your G&Ts, and a plumbed-in crapper. For those of us with non-elastic spines, that sounds a lot better. (And for those who sneer at 'canned hunts', you are benefitting from the downward pressure on prices exerted by this alternative.)

Speaking of Horn of The Hunter he said his entire safari cost $10,000. I wonder what that would be in today’s dollars?

 

[LivingTheDream]

LOL....Those are nice collective figures. Join the real world and look at what the median income is by age brackets within the Boomer generation and you'll find a the majority of older boomers are lower class with an annual income under $40k, the majority of the middle aged bracket average middle class ~$65K, the majority of younger age bracket average upper class at ~$100k, and the average retired upper 10% class at over $100k+.

When Boomers bought their first homes they paid less for their home than what an acre or less costs today.

Sure they could sell, and a lot did, but found out that buying a new equally sized home in the same area would costs more than what they sold their original home for, or relocating to a different area and possibly saving some money from the sale of their previous home or going back into debt to pay for the new equally or lesser size home.



Another LOL. By what standards are you comparing apples to apples. We are called "Baby Boomers" for a reason.....for the high influx in the US population. And most of that 10% is "old money" or from the "Roaring '20's" that was available after the Great Depression.

The upper 10% also realized the new 2 income family could afford to pay more for the same product that was costing the same to produce until suppliers started charging more for their goods.

So yeah our upper 10% initiated the need for the 2 income family, leaving the single income families to still make ends meet.



This is straying well away from the OP.

If you require further history and economics lessons need to start a separate OP.

Back to topic OP.

So boomers are poor, or the rich boomers are too blame. Because apparently rich boomers inherited it from the rich who weren't effected by the great depression. Or was it the boomers who made money in coal in Virginia and Kentucky.

Yes sir, I will get right on that history lesson.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Yes, familiar from both sides. You have to have exquisite detail but the buyer is still going to haggle it or discount the multiple. Any proof you have it was not a legitimate business expense is also evidence for your tax trial. Happy to avoid either.

Great bull by the way!

Buyer is going to hammer you, you can run a lifestyle business or a growth business, trying to sell a lifestyle business as a growth business will not get you multipler you want.

 

[Killingtime]

There seems to be an assumption only baby boomers spend money to hunt in Africa. This forum has more younger members than many assume. You go to the big shows there are no shortage of younger hunters below 40. There might be less total hunters but I know my grandparents would spend no money to go hunting, my Dad spends some but still very reserved, my generation and those younger seem the most willing to spend money on experiences. There’s no shortage of hunters here who didn’t consider Africa until a lot later in life. I don’t think it’s the doom and gloom many make it out to be. It’s just a change.

Im one of those younger guys at the shows. And you are correct then gen x and millennial do spend money on experience and my father was a man who in his youth paid cash on new sports cars every year according to him and his siblings. 6 kids changed that lol. But the vast majority of people at DSC are over 50 without a doubt I wasn’t at SCI this year so I could only speculate on that being the case there. Now the western trade shows are different but lots of younger guys dream of elk and mules.
I hope African hunting will continue to grow and I want to say I’m not doom and gloom but I’d be lying if I don’t think we have a uphill battle with population changes in Africa as a whole which will probably increase cost of land to hunt and more younger people as they grow older might not have the resources or find other experiences to put them towards. There was a romanticism in the older crowds for hunting Africa and the world. The romanticism is there in the younger people even those in their early 20’s that I talk to. Though it seems to see the world, not hunt it.
On that last point I do not believe we need a lot of people to hunt Africa to begin with And that was the point of my post the person I responded to believed when the older generation was gone their kids that inherit the money would keep the hunting cost high. I don’t think that will be the case. The prices may stay high from inflation, land scarcity and wage decline but probably not from inherited wealth of the next generation.

 

[revturbo9967]

Was it hard to draw brooks? A artic grizzly would be really cool to get.

No draw, over the counter tags. just need to be with a guide if you’re a non resident

 

[Killingtime]

Not trying to burst your bubble but the odds of your children drawing a bighorn ram tag are minuscule unless you started putting them in when they were teenagers, in which case there’s a chance, if they keep up with it and the states like Wyoming don’t regulate or price non-residents out that they draw by the time they’re into their 50’s or 60’s. There biggest issue is the overall number of sheep tags continues to diminish.

There’s a growing trend of western states utilizing non-residents as their Fish & Game piggy bank while slashing opportunities for them.

If you or your children want to sheep hunt, I strongly encourage you to pony up the money and plan/book a hunt for 3-5 years from now. The only sheep that might stay sub $50k the next few years are the high fence desert bighorn sheep in Mexico. Hopefully that takes some pressure off the Dall Sheep as herd numbers are in a major downward spiral, with Alaska closing many areas to both residents and non-residents

I’m glad you confirmed what I’ve been thinking about sheep and western hunting. I look at the odds and it just makes little sense to me. I may just start taking to to hunt sheep around the world Barbary sheep looks to be very affordable in SA and seems like a fun hunt. I’ll probably just scratch them off the list. I seen a whole herd of them on 70 a few years ago in Colorado I believe the town was silverton.. I considered letting Jesus take the wheel and me getting my ram with a truck lol.