Africa...when will you be priced out??

[Josh P]

My initial exposure to the idea of hunting Africa was through reading some of the classics. I’ve been priced out of the experiences equivalent to those written about almost since the books they were in went out of print. No amount of brewing vs buying coffee will clip enough coin to allow me to hire an ox wagon, a dozen porters, and license to ride out for however long it takes me to fill the wagon with ivory…So, that helps with approaching what is actually realistic for my lifetime.

Neither old nor young, I am squeezed between the timeline and the effort. Starting a family late (or on time, depending on perspective) puts me behind the curve a bit. I bought an older home that is affordable and I do as much of the remodeling as I can reasonably do myself. Keeps costs down and increases equity. We drive paid off vehicles. My hunting and fishing boats were both $100 finds from marketplace (the new equivalent of my welded aluminum duck boat is about $4k). We spent the first part of our marriage paying down debt instead of increasing debt. I picked up a side gig mowing some local public properties, mostly cemeteries, which funds the house renovations and keeps us away from home equity loans. If I need new tools or equipment, I either buy the corded drill instead of the cordless, or I wait till I can score a deal via marketplace or estate auctions.

When it comes to stateside hunting it’s exclusively DIY. I occasionally drop $20 on KY elk tags hoping to draw, but I have done a couple western state OTC tags when I was single. My favorite hunting is chasing pigs in the swamps or the woods in places like FL, south GA, or Texas. I would still be chasing those hunts even if money were no concern. My “big” yearly hunt is also a favorite, also in FL, a big game hunt on an island in the Gulf. It costs more in gas to drive to the boat ramp from IN than the non-resident tags.

A slight divergence from my main rambling here…When it comes to waterfowl hunting, which I’m increasingly enjoying more than whitetail hunting, is done all within about an hour’s drive from the house. It’s either on the river that is our property line, public land daily draw hunts, or open access public land. If I measured my success by comparing my hunts to what’s regularly shown on social media, I would be disappointed. Some days SEEING a limit of birds is a good day, let alone bringing meat back. But it doesn’t cost much to scout for the best location around me for the given weekend, I can occasionally bring the boy and have him home before he’s miserable enough to swear off going again, and I genuinely enjoy it enough that I can’t justify going to a lodge, burning thousands on fuel to hunt chasing the migration, etc. I row my little boat to a likely spot, brush in, and enjoy my tea while the sun rises over the decoys (which were paid for by buying bulk used lots in the off season and selling the excess.) Measure your hunts by your enjoyment of them and NOT by trying to mimic social media highlights.

Back to the main topic of this thread. Once the financial needs are better addressed and the actual saving for Africa begins, the plan is to have cash set aside, and hopefully be transitioned to full-time self employment for flexibility of schedule, and prioritize the cancellation hunt market. There is incredible savings to be had and it’s not just for the high end hunts. I have a fluid, sometimes changing, mental priority list of species and environments I want to experience. When they open up, I’ll jump on them. Aside from that, I will begin planning for buffalo so I don’t sit on my hands too long.

Prioritize. Right now, rightfully so, my family is more of a priority than hunting Africa. Once those needs are addressed, their status as top priority doesn’t diminish, but I’ll have more room for other pursuits. In the meantime, cost cutting of my discretionary spending, side work, savings, eduction and research, skill development, etc. can all take place to benefit both current and future endeavors in relation to hunting wants.

Summary: Be realistic about what is worthwhile. Put in extra effort for extra experiences. Don’t wipe out your savings/time on high-cost/low-yield experiences that aren’t any better than what’s in the “back yard”.

 

[Rare Breed]

A wise man!

 

[dogcat1]

Did not read all of this thread, but sheep hunting has gone higher quicker and more than Africa....
I doubt I hunt sheep again as even Aoudad are over $5k now. Stone's sheep are hitting 6 figures.

 

[45-70guy]

I wonder about this. I hope to make several more trips before I am done, likely to RSA because of the cost factor, though I would like to hunt elephant just once and lion, albeit CBL, if that's still a thing when I am finally able to go.

And SGW is right: it's everywhere. I left Kansas and moved to Alaska because it had gotten to where access to land had become non-existent. It amazes me at what people pay to come to Alaska to hunt moose or bear as a non-resident - it far outpaces what it costs to go to RSA to hunt.

Hunting is becoming a rich man's game. I remember many years ago MR James of Bowhunter magazine predicted that very thing. He even had a predicted timeline that's probably still on track.

I have had many friends who have given up because they can't afford it. I personally believe hunter numbers will eventually shrink in the coming years because of the costs involved. Parents who might have hunted and introduced their kids to hunting will pursue other activities that don't cost as much. I say that as a professional environmental educator and hunter ed instructor.

People pay those prices to go Alaska because that’s what the outfitters are asking. As a business is it better to have 10 good customers or 100 mediocre customers, some good and some bad? It’s just how everything works except for those businesses like banks, they want EVERY customer

 

[45-70guy]

As Russ says. When the baby boomers are gone. The industry will slow and prices will correct to the market.

lol that might be a while, as some of the boomers parents are still alive so if they make it to their 80’s and 90’s we still have a ways to go!

 

[Gerty]

 

[Tundra Tiger]

People pay those prices to go Alaska because that’s what the outfitters are asking. As a business is it better to have 10 good customers or 100 mediocre customers, some good and some bad? It’s just how everything works except for those businesses like banks, they want EVERY customer

Not complaining... just an observation. I live here so it's not a big deal to me. I do think the prices are silly.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

People pay those prices to go Alaska because that’s what the outfitters are asking. As a business is it better to have 10 good customers or 100 mediocre customers, some good and some bad? It’s just how everything works except for those businesses like banks, they want EVERY customer

A lot of it is also how the state reduces or changes tag allotments. The outfitters know if they stay at 10k then 200 people (hypothetical) will want to hunt and other outfitters might start operating in those areas to capitalize on it before the Fish & Game Cycle can change the tags to draw versus going to the higher dollar amount they can discourage that number of hunters keeping pressure off a limited resource. This keeps their area open to over the counter licenses knowing the majority of the access and habitat the animals are using is mostly inaccessible to road hunters without utilizing their service or a transporter and they’ve all gotten together to monitor supply vs demand.

 

[1:66 twiste@d]

Did not read all of this thread, but sheep hunting has gone higher quicker and more than Africa....
I doubt I hunt sheep again as even Aoudad are over $5k now. Stone's sheep are hitting 6 figures.

Huntershill in Eastern Cape, Audad (Barbary sheep) 2500. I believe. Half price of west Texas. So if you are going over for Cape Buffalo it's worth the extra to try for one. My 2 cents.

 

[Major Bonkers]

Also: https://www.pronkjag.com/

 

[DLSJR]

Did not read all of this thread, but sheep hunting has gone higher quicker and more than Africa....
I doubt I hunt sheep again as even Aoudad are over $5k now. Stone's sheep are hitting 6 figures.

You hit the nail on the head. The cost for sheep hunting has simply gotten ridiculous. I’ve only hunted the various North American sheep and mostly when sheep hunting was reasonable. My first Dall Sheep hunt was $4,100 (yes, it was a long time ago, 1978) and I did four sheep hunts in the 1970’s when even Stone Sheep was about $7,500. My most recent sheep hunt was Desert Bighorn in California, 2020. That hunt was also $7,500. BUT, nowadays Dall & Stone hunts have reached ridiculous prices and doubt I’ll ever hunt either of them again. I’m hoping to hunt a few more sheep, Desert & Rocky, but those will be on draw tags (yes, I have enough points to realistically have a reasonable chance of drawing) and those hunts aren’t that expensive still.

For what most sheep hunting costs, I’d simply rather go to Africa as long as possible.

 

[Green Chile]

Sheep costs are ridiculous but there are some others. I got a recent email on a cancellation moose hunt and the reduced cost was something like 50k. I read further and the original cost was around 70k. That's insane. I think moose hunts should be priced like cape buff hunts. $15-25k depending on the variables.

 

[Datchew]

I’ve shifted my focus away from Africa and more toward Europe and North America. Honestly, I’m just not mad enough at the buffalo anymore to justify the expense, and have no idea what I’d do with another buffalo! I have hunts planned in Portugal, Romania, Arizona and North Dakota. I really have never done much guided hunting outside of Africa and Europe. All of my Alaskan hunts have been unguided. North Dakota are unguided bird hunts on friends farms.

This sounds like what I'm thinking as well.
But I still want a hippo and a croc someday.

 

[bwanamrm]

You hit the nail on the head. The cost for sheep hunting has simply gotten ridiculous. I’ve only hunted the various North American sheep and mostly when sheep hunting was reasonable. My first Dall Sheep hunt was $4,100 (yes, it was a long time ago, 1978) and I did four sheep hunts in the 1970’s when even Stone Sheep was about $7,500. My most recent sheep hunt was Desert Bighorn in California, 2020. That hunt was also $7,500. BUT, nowadays Dall & Stone hunts have reached ridiculous prices and doubt I’ll ever hunt either of them again. I’m hoping to hunt a few more sheep, Desert & Rocky, but those will be on draw tags (yes, I have enough points to realistically have a reasonable chance of drawing) and those hunts aren’t that expensive still.

For what most sheep hunting costs, I’d simply rather go to Africa as long as possible.

Yep it's crazy but you can do most of the Asian sheep hunts including some of the Mongolian argali's for what a Stone or Bighorn hunt runs these days. Amazing but there are those willing to pay for the limited number of licenses available.

I don't always adhere to my own advice but live loosely by the mantra "just because you could, doesn't mean you should!"

I am starting to feel I resemble the grizzled old veterans I used to chuckle at 20 years ago when they talked about the good ol' days!

 

[Datchew]

It is what it is. Prices reflect demand. It’s as simple as that. If you want it to happen then you just have to make it happen.

I’m a Baby Boomer, I got to see the last few weeks of the 50’s. I’ve spent most of my life in law enforcement. I’m not rich but I’ve never gone hungry. I live in Australia, my income is in the Ozzie dollar, and I pay for my US and African trips with the green back. What a sobering experience that is. But, the biggest thing is that I’m living in the only time in history….ever, that has provided the opportunity for a working class man to travel and hunt the world. Our standard of living is paladin. I grew up in the third largest city in Australia. During my primary school years I grew up in a household, which was like every other household in the suburbs. We didn’t have insect screens, we didn’t have electric fans, the toilet was outside with a weekly shit can collection. The nearest telephone was a pay phone in the next block. Only one house in my street had a phone. Air travel?? I didn’t know any rich people. Fuck…how things have changed.

What I’m trying to say is that things have never been better. Just make it happen. I’m almost 67. I head to Africa for the first time in less than 2 weeks. Elephant with a Rigby. Fingers crossed.

I can’t believe how lucky I am. Fellas, just make it happen.
View attachment 762465


View attachment 762466

Bravo!

 

[Russ16]

Sheep costs are ridiculous but there are some others. I got a recent email on a cancellation moose hunt and the reduced cost was something like 50k. I read further and the original cost was around 70k. That's insane. I think moose hunts should be priced like cape buff hunts. $15-25k depending on the variables.

What’s ridiculous about sheep is I can fly to Kyrgyzstan and shoot a really nice Ibex for way less than a sheep in North America. Or even a mountain goat.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Yep it's crazy but you can do most of the Asian sheep hunts including some of the Mongolian argali's for what a Stone or Bighorn hunt runs these days. Amazing but there are those willing to pay for the limited number of licenses available.

I don't always adhere to my own advice but live loosely by the mantra "just because you could, doesn't mean you should!"

I am starting to feel I resemble the grizzled old veterans I used to chuckle at 20 years ago when they talked about the good ol' days!

That’s some great advice from a grizzled old veteran of international hunting.

My hunting goals are starting to drift towards unique places and experiences, as well as specific species and away from generic places, animals or things. As much as I’d like to elk hunt every year, or keep going to Africa twice a year I’ve found myself starting to consider less frequent but more remote or unique hunts, and targeting areas with true trophy potential. Thanks to a few people on AH a Lord Derby is rapidly climbing my list and is right there behind a North American Sheep and a Moose.

Unless the sheep bug bites me really really really bad after this hunt, I can pretty much confirm this will be a one and done North American Sheep Hunt, barring I draw a tag somewhere or relocate to Alaska. Not being wealthy it’s taken a lot of convincing, planning, and sacrifice to achieve the dream of sheep hunting. I’m still not 100% there but I will say going in I did a lot of research, decided if this was a one and done deal I wanted to stack all the odds in my favor for both an amazing trip, success, and ability to hunt in one of the most beautiful, pristine, uninhabited places in the world that’s potentially never had a human footprint before.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

What’s ridiculous about sheep is I can fly to Kyrgyzstan and shoot a really nice Ibex for way less than a sheep in North America. Or even a mountain goat.

The populations, tags, and demand is vastly different. You have the ability to do a NA Bighorn Hunt vastly cheaper. It’s call the Montana Unlimited Tags but success rates are sub 1-2%.

If the guided hunts were the same price how many people would want too book a sheep hunt? Dall hunts in NWT are $65-80k now and sold out 4-6 years in advance in Alaska $35-55k and sub 50% success but booked out multiple years in advance. Stone hunts are $100-140k and sold out multiple years in advance, Rocky Mountain Bighorn (ignoring unlimited or draw hunts) are over $100k. Desert Bighorn in high fences are the cheapest at $35-45k, with Mexico free range hunts $55k+.

Guys are bitching about 3-5 years wait times on Rigby Doubles or 2-3 on Heym Doubles. You want a 10-20 year wait on a sheep hunt? Supply and Demand

 

[Green Chile]

What’s ridiculous about sheep is I can fly to Kyrgyzstan and shoot a really nice Ibex for way less than a sheep in North America. Or even a mountain goat.

I would love to do one ibex hunt but the distance and time needed makes me pause. Time is $. Which makes me look at Bezoar in Turkey but their prices are 2x for regular ibex.

 

[Russ16]

The populations, tags, and demand is vastly different. You have the ability to do a NA Bighorn Hunt vastly cheaper. It’s call the Montana Unlimited Tags but success rates are sub 1-2%.

If the guided hunts were the same price how many people would want too book a sheep hunt? Dall hunts in NWT are $65-80k now and sold out 4-6 years in advance in Alaska $35-55k and sub 50% success but booked out multiple years in advance. Stone hunts are $100-140k and sold out multiple years in advance, Rocky Mountain Bighorn (ignoring unlimited or draw hunts) are over $100k. Desert Bighorn in high fences are the cheapest at $35-45k, with Mexico free range hunts $55k+.

Guys are bitching about 3-5 years wait times on Rigby Doubles or 2-3 on Heym Doubles. You want a 10-20 year wait on a sheep hunt? Supply and Demand

I get the reasons it’s just very strange and frustrating.

I didn’t know enough about sheep hunting to start putting in for points 20-30 years ago. Now it’s too late. Wish that wasn’t the case.