Affordable big bores no longer being offered by the big guys

And not sure why people keep on about the sako 85 being discontinued...as each time people say it I look it up, and there it is on the sako website.... :E Shrug:

 

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And not sure why people keep on about the sako 85 being discontinued...as each time people say it I look it up, and there it is on the sako website.... :E Shrug:

I see it listed as well, just never see any of the Magnum length rifles in stock.

Now that I googled Sako 85 discontinued it all seems to be conjecture from online forums. I'm not seeing anything official.
 
I see it listed as well, just never see any of the Magnum length rifles in stock.

Now that I googled Sako 85 discontinued it all seems to be conjecture from online forums. I'm not seeing anything official.

I have seen it stated on various threads on here that they are discontinued, and each time I have checked and put the link on showing them on the sako website...I doubt they would stop making them as they are their main line of hunting rifles from what I can see...
 
I have seen it stated on various threads on here that they are discontinued, and each time I have checked and put the link on showing them on the sako website...I doubt they would stop making them as they are their main line of hunting rifles from what I can see...
I have no idea if it is true but I was told by a gunsmith that they have temporarily stopped production to focus on military rifles, leading to a supply chain issue.
 
I see it listed as well, just never see any of the Magnum length rifles in stock.

Now that I googled Sako 85 discontinued it all seems to be conjecture from online forums. I'm not seeing anything official.

Just asked the guy from the gunshop here I use as he brings sako in...had the big cals in in the past....he said you want one....said no trying to find out for someone who been told they stopped making...he said let me see I was talking to them in Germany..he went to IWA show....so now you might have to buy one here :X3: :E Big Grin:...not a problem as can look after it for you ....:A Thumbs Up:
 
I see it listed as well, just never see any of the Magnum length rifles in stock.

Now that I googled Sako 85 discontinued it all seems to be conjecture from online forums. I'm not seeing anything official.
If you are serious about wanting a Sako 85, JD Outfitters (Oklahoma) has a tremendous stock. Check out their stuff on Guns International. I typed in "Sako 85", "safari" and "375H&H" in the search and got this...

https://www.gunsinternational.com/a...&screenname_omit=&seller_sku=&area_code=&age=

Your $3K budget will be blown, but you will have a hell of a rifle to show for it. Especially if you pick up one of those Brown Bear editions.
 

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@Northern Shooter - $3K is a reasonable budget for a CRF dangerous game capable rifle...that's what I thought about 7 years ago when I bought a CZ550 375H&H. That opened a whole can of worms because the rifle was good, but rough. The trigger was creepy, bolt wan't smooth and feeding wasn't perfect. It took several months at AHR, along with several thousand more dollars to have all these problems worked out. Total cost to get this rifle safari ready was over $5K.

Most of the CZ550's out there have had some type of work done to them by a gunsmith. The level of quality of that work can vary quite a bit, with AHR being one of the most respected. Finding one of these on the used market can run $4-6K and up depending on the timber.

If you are looking to hunt DG with a 375H&H or larger, pinching pennies at the start will only result in you spending more in the end. If I had started with a semi-custom rifle maker like Dakota it would have been less expensive and I would have had a nicer looking rifle.

I sold the CZ550 to @Scott CWO who is using it as a client rifle for brown bear hunting in Alaska. My wife and I now have Blaser R8 rifles that are capable of shooting 22lr all the way to 505GIBBS, all on the same platform. Was it inexpensive, no...but finding a top notch quality product rarely is.

If you stay on Africa Hunting long enough, you will learn the meaning of "buy once, cry once".
Bee , l think you ment 500jeff not 505 gibbs.
 
I'd buy a CZ 550 built by Wayne at AHR for a bit more. Better DG rifle.
 
If you are serious about wanting a Sako 85, JD Outfitters (Oklahoma) has a tremendous stock. Check out their stuff on Guns International. I typed in "Sako 85", "safari" and "375H&H" in the search and got this...

https://www.gunsinternational.com/a...&screenname_omit=&seller_sku=&area_code=&age=

Your $3K budget will be blown, but you will have a hell of a rifle to show for it. Especially if you pick up one of those Brown Bear editions.
I'm surprised to see those prices that high on the Sakos, especially in USD. All the 85s I've seen in stock this year we're less than $3000. That was for the Kodiak model though, not the brown bear.
 
This doesnt help much but it may be of use to someone.
It looks like Musgrave rifles in RSA are offering 404J, 416Rigby, 458Lott and 500J as standard offerings in their Big Bore lineup.


for interest sake...
 
This doesnt help much but it may be of use to someone.
It looks like Musgrave rifles in RSA are offering 404J, 416Rigby, 458Lott and 500J as standard offerings in their Big Bore lineup.


for interest sake...
Nice! Nice pricing as well. What is your opinion on their quality?
 
Nice! Nice pricing as well. What is your opinion on their quality?
The only one i have experience with was about 20yrs old in 243win, it was solid, smooth, accurate and better finished than my cz550 when purchased.
The action was typical mauser style, sloppy when open. It was CRF.
It was a bit heavy though for a small caliber and was sold in favour of trying out the mauser m18 in 243win.
I would be keen to hear if anyone else has had first hand experience with these newer models.

Their pricing is affordable. I have been considering adding a 7x57 caliber to the ranks as a client rifle. This may be a good option.
 
I'm surprised to see those prices that high on the Sakos, especially in USD. All the 85s I've seen in stock this year we're less than $3000. That was for the Kodiak model though, not the brown bear.
The high prices ($3k+) include a "Free Safari".

FREE AFRICAN SAFARI WITH KUCHE SAFARIS :) KUCHE.CO.ZA) INCLUDED WITH THIS RIFLE! SAFARI IS FOR 1-HUNTER / 5-DAYS / 3-ANIMALS (IMPALA, BLESBUCK, WARTHOG). SAFARI IS CUSTOMIZABLE WITH ADDITIONAL DAYS AND ANIMALS AVAILABLE. THE CERTIFICATE IS GOOD FOR 3-YEARS FROM DATE OF PURCHASE AND WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU. NOTE: THE SAFARI IS FREE AND DOES NOT ADD ANY COST TO THE RIFLE.
 
Guns International and Gun Broker have the big bores up for sale quite often. In the past month I purchased a Kimber Caprivi in 458 lott unfired in the box from 2013. I was also able to purchase a Caprivi in 375 h&h. Both from Guns International.
 
Kimber Caprivi is a great rifle, if you can get your hands on one. They are out there.
 
Almost bought one on gunbroker a few weeks back. I was 100 bucks under selling price and forgot the auction was ending. :Grumpy:
 
It seems like the days of finding affordable dangerous game/big bore bolt actions from non-bespoke companies are fading behind us. Especially those that offer CRF.

1. The CZ 550 was likely the quintessential affordable bolt gun platform that offered a wide array of dangerous game cartridges from .375 to .505 that the average working man could afford. This model was regrettably discontinued in 2019. The subsequent 557 and 600 series never offered any of the big bore chamberings.

2. Ruger MKII RSM - The last great Ruger? I'm not sure when these were discontinued but they have been gone for some time now.

3. Ruger No.1 no longer offering Big Bore options. I was hoping to find a new No.1 in .416 or .458 but they don't appear to be offering the rifle in anything larger than .275 Rigby at the moment.

4. Sako 85 Brown Bear - This is the latest rifle ive been trying to track down in .416 Rigby, discontinued in 2022. It doesn't look like the new Sako 100 switch-barrel rifle will offer any of the dangerous game cartridges.

So what's left?

1. There's the Winchester Model 70 Safari Express line. I rarely see these in stock but they continue to offer the rifles in 375H&H, .416 RemMag and .458 Winchester. Price $1,759.99 USD.

2. Browning offers their X-bolt in .375H&H ($1,129.99). The Browning BAR only seems to go up to .338 WM now.

3. Ruger offers their Hawkeye Guide Gun and African in .375/.416 Ruger ($1619.00 USD).

Am I missing any others? Do we expect this trend to continue with less and less affordable new production dangerous game rifles being released?

Are there any rumours of new rifles coming to production that will offer up some of these chamberings?
It seems like the days of finding affordable dangerous game/big bore bolt actions from non-bespoke companies are fading behind us. Especially those that offer CRF.

1. The CZ 550 was likely the quintessential affordable bolt gun platform that offered a wide array of dangerous game cartridges from .375 to .505 that the average working man could afford. This model was regrettably discontinued in 2019. The subsequent 557 and 600 series never offered any of the big bore chamberings.

2. Ruger MKII RSM - The last great Ruger? I'm not sure when these were discontinued but they have been gone for some time now.

3. Ruger No.1 no longer offering Big Bore options. I was hoping to find a new No.1 in .416 or .458 but they don't appear to be offering the rifle in anything larger than .275 Rigby at the moment.

4. Sako 85 Brown Bear - This is the latest rifle ive been trying to track down in .416 Rigby, discontinued in 2022. It doesn't look like the new Sako 100 switch-barrel rifle will offer any of the dangerous game cartridges.

So what's left?

1. There's the Winchester Model 70 Safari Express line. I rarely see these in stock but they continue to offer the rifles in 375H&H, .416 RemMag and .458 Winchester. Price $1,759.99 USD.

2. Browning offers their X-bolt in .375H&H ($1,129.99). The Browning BAR only seems to go up to .338 WM now.

3. Ruger offers their Hawkeye Guide Gun and African in .375/.416 Ruger ($1619.00 USD).

Am I missing any others? Do we expect this trend to continue with less and less affordable new production dangerous game rifles being released?

Are there any rumours of new rifles coming to production that will offer up some of these chamberings?
Northern Shooter! Thank you for your insightful post. You articulated what I have been wanting to say here for quite some time, but never got around to doing. When one lives long enough one gets the benefit of perspective. Perhaps no closer to having a solution or answer but definitely perspective!

I was fortunate enough to go to Africa in the summer of 1989 when I had just turned 20 years old. Back then a double rifle in a large bore (or in any caliber) was the stuff of films and old safari books. In the field, in the then South Africa anyway, was the "Brno 602" in either .375 H&H or in .458 WinMag. That was pretty much it. Visiting foreign Hunters would have the same calibers usually in a Winchester M70, Ruger Mark II, or Remington 700.

Then in circa 1990 the firearms/ammo industry had a safari renaissance of sorts. Federal came back with loading for the .470 Nitro Express and several gunmakers released/re-released the .416 calibers (.416 Rigby, .416 Remington, .416 Weatherby etc) with ammo makers following suit. Ruger itself resurrected the venerable .416 Riby in both it's Mark II and No. 1 models. CZ did the same and this once great caliber, which had been relegated to the safari history books, was back for another 30 year run. Ditto for the .375 H&H cartridge which had been chambered by almost every major gun manufacture in the world as a standard offering. So much so as to be taken for granted as a caliber (and ammo) one could always find worldwide with ease.

This renaissance extended to the aforementioned rare double rifle cartridges which had almost disappeared in the 1960's with the twin disappearance of Kynoch ammo along with the British Empire. Not only did Kynoch return from the dead but many hitherto rare calibers such as .375 Flanged were back being offered by Norma, Kynoch, and Hornady.

Now history is repeating itself. First the .375 Flanged ammo disappeared. Kynoch is once again defunct and both Norma and Hornady don'f offer it. If you're one who invested in a double by Heym, Chapuis, or Krieghoff in this cartridge you're finding yourself where Indian Maharaja's and European owners were in the 1960's. Ditto now for the 450/400 NE 3" which was until recently one of the most popular offerings for a double (or single shot) rifle. Only Hornady is loading for this caliber and only occasionally so. Those who invested in expensive rifles for this caliber can't be feeling too comfortable these days!

But the real concern here is the slow disappearance of the former mainstream safari calibers that were for the everyman. Specifically the .375 H&H. As NS pointed out, there are no mainstream firearms manufactures who chamber this round. Ammo makers are following suit. One used to find ammo offered in .375 H&H easily by Federal, Norma, Winchester, Remington, Kynoch, Barnes, Hornady, and Prvi Partizan just to name a few. You could purchase a box almost anywhere and in many cases .375 H&H was as easy as finding 30-06 ammo. Likewise, one could pick up a decently priced .375 H&H bolt action made by Sako, CZ, Ruger, Winchester, Remington, Dakota, Steyr, etc. Now? As Northern Shooter pointed out that list has dwindled. I believe that Blaser is one of the few left that regularly offer the .375 H&H. And the Blaser R8 is not considered an everyman-priced rifle.

As a Life Member of both SCI and DSC, this topic is something I have always wanted to raise with the influencers in the safari industry. From outfitters, firearms manufacturers, ammo makers and anyone else who has a vested interest in seeing our sport and passion live on. We as a community need to shake some sense back into the industry we support and get them to focus. Chamberings like the .375 H&H should be continued and invested in and resources not wasted on nonsense like the Ruger .375 (or Ruger .416 for that matter) with only Hornady making ammo for it. Ruger should once again chamber its rifles in .375 H&H and get Hornady to make the standard loads for it (270 and 300 grain). That would be a good first step. We can't do anything about CZ which sees no future chambering for safari calibers sadly. That means the once resurrected legacy calibers such as the .505 Gibbs, .404 Jeffrey, and even the .416 Rigby (which Ruger used to also offer) will once again only be found in the safari history books. But the .375 H&H and possibly the .458 WinMag can still be saved if our gun/ammo industry would focus and cooperate. The everyman, which the safari industry needs to survive, will appreciate it.

Sorry for the rant and apologies if any of my facts stated above are off. This is was a stream of consciousness entry which I have wanted to get off my chest for some time. I welcome anyone's comments and thoughts.
 
Northern Shooter! Thank you for your insightful post. You articulated what I have been wanting to say here for quite some time, but never got around to doing. When one lives long enough one gets the benefit of perspective. Perhaps no closer to having a solution or answer but definitely perspective!

I was fortunate enough to go to Africa in the summer of 1989 when I had just turned 20 years old. Back then a double rifle in a large bore (or in any caliber) was the stuff of films and old safari books. In the field, in the then South Africa anyway, was the "Brno 602" in either .375 H&H or in .458 WinMag. That was pretty much it. Visiting foreign Hunters would have the same calibers usually in a Winchester M70, Ruger Mark II, or Remington 700.

Then in circa 1990 the firearms/ammo industry had a safari renaissance of sorts. Federal came back with loading for the .470 Nitro Express and several gunmakers released/re-released the .416 calibers (.416 Rigby, .416 Remington, .416 Weatherby etc) with ammo makers following suit. Ruger itself resurrected the venerable .416 Riby in both it's Mark II and No. 1 models. CZ did the same and this once great caliber, which had been relegated to the safari history books, was back for another 30 year run. Ditto for the .375 H&H cartridge which had been chambered by almost every major gun manufacture in the world as a standard offering. So much so as to be taken for granted as a caliber (and ammo) one could always find worldwide with ease.

This renaissance extended to the aforementioned rare double rifle cartridges which had almost disappeared in the 1960's with the twin disappearance of Kynoch ammo along with the British Empire. Not only did Kynoch return from the dead but many hitherto rare calibers such as .375 Flanged were back being offered by Norma, Kynoch, and Hornady.

Now history is repeating itself. First the .375 Flanged ammo disappeared. Kynoch is once again defunct and both Norma and Hornady don'f offer it. If you're one who invested in a double by Heym, Chapuis, or Krieghoff in this cartridge you're finding yourself where Indian Maharaja's and European owners were in the 1960's. Ditto now for the 450/400 NE 3" which was until recently one of the most popular offerings for a double (or single shot) rifle. Only Hornady is loading for this caliber and only occasionally so. Those who invested in expensive rifles for this caliber can't be feeling too comfortable these days!

But the real concern here is the slow disappearance of the former mainstream safari calibers that were for the everyman. Specifically the .375 H&H. As NS pointed out, there are no mainstream firearms manufactures who chamber this round. Ammo makers are following suit. One used to find ammo offered in .375 H&H easily by Federal, Norma, Winchester, Remington, Kynoch, Barnes, Hornady, and Prvi Partizan just to name a few. You could purchase a box almost anywhere and in many cases .375 H&H was as easy as finding 30-06 ammo. Likewise, one could pick up a decently priced .375 H&H bolt action made by Sako, CZ, Ruger, Winchester, Remington, Dakota, Steyr, etc. Now? As Northern Shooter pointed out that list has dwindled. I believe that Blaser is one of the few left that regularly offer the .375 H&H. And the Blaser R8 is not considered an everyman-priced rifle.

As a Life Member of both SCI and DSC, this topic is something I have always wanted to raise with the influencers in the safari industry. From outfitters, firearms manufacturers, ammo makers and anyone else who has a vested interest in seeing our sport and passion live on. We as a community need to shake some sense back into the industry we support and get them to focus. Chamberings like the .375 H&H should be continued and invested in and resources not wasted on nonsense like the Ruger .375 (or Ruger .416 for that matter) with only Hornady making ammo for it. Ruger should once again chamber its rifles in .375 H&H and get Hornady to make the standard loads for it (270 and 300 grain). That would be a good first step. We can't do anything about CZ which sees no future chambering for safari calibers sadly. That means the once resurrected legacy calibers such as the .505 Gibbs, .404 Jeffrey, and even the .416 Rigby (which Ruger used to also offer) will once again only be found in the safari history books. But the .375 H&H and possibly the .458 WinMag can still be saved if our gun/ammo industry would focus and cooperate. The everyman, which the safari industry needs to survive, will appreciate it.

Sorry for the rant and apologies if any of my facts stated above are off. This is was a stream of consciousness entry which I have wanted to get off my chest for some time. I welcome anyone's comments and thoughts.
 

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