Advice needed before buying

WebleyGreene455

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Good afternoon, everyone.

Some of you might remember a thread I made a few months ago. I purchased a rifle with the intention of using it as the basis for a rebuild project, the rifle turned out to be pretty much unsuitable for what I wanted to do, and has been set aside pending a resale or something since I wasn't able to return it to the seller.

I would still like to continue with that project idea and have found for sale a rifle I think would work out much better for my needs, but I'm hesitant to purchase it (and this corona business doesn't help matters) without getting some feedback first.

Here's the listing in question:

Unlike the previous attempt, which turned out to be a buggered WWII-era Kar98k, this one is almost assuredly a purpose-built interwar sporting rifle, so that's a plus for me. What I wan to do for this project are the following:
  1. Rebore/rechamber to 9.3x62mm
  2. Install one or two recoil bolts/lugs in the stock
  3. Install a new front sight and a Rigby-style aperture on the cocking piece
  4. Get new scope rings, probably from NECG but if I can find more vintage-looking rings I would go that route
I'd like feedback on whether this rifle would at least seem like a good starting point for such a project, or if I'd be better off going a different track.

Thank you,
~~W.G.455
 

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bruce moulds

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webley,
3 things to consider .
first the rifle would need to be restocked due to the muzzle loader era drop in the butt.
second is the barrel wedge ( if you keep the stock) will cause the rifle to shift zero.
third is the scope mount bases would need to be got rid of so you could use modern lower mounting options.
bruce.
 

Velo Dog

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Hello WebleyGreene,

Most of the magazines on the typical 8x57 Mauser are too short for the cartridge you want to use.
A professional Gunsmith can modify a ‘98 Mauser action to accept what amounts to a “.30-06 length” magazine.
However, this is expensive.

That said, I too am quite fond of the 9.3x62 cartridge.
I had mine built on a 1950’s vintage FN Mauser, that had been originally sold by Sears-Roebuck & Company, known as the “Sears Model 50”, back in those times.
As such, mine had formerly been a .30-06 caliber.

The metal work amounted to nothing more than rebarreling to 9.3x62.
With no additional metal work, it functions as perfectly as it did when it was a .30-06.
(The installation of an English walnut stock that I selected was not cheap but, worth it to me).

Anywhooo, I hope my thoughts on the 57MM family of cartridges magazine length vs the 64MM family of cartridges length does not discourage you.
I hope it helps you avoid selecting the wrong basis for your intended project.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.
 

AZDAVE

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I remember your posting and the unfortunate state of that rifle.
Have a couple question for you is how much of the work are you going to be doing yourself?
Are you planning on restocking after you have the action rebarreled or bored/rifled?
Based on both your posts you wish to use a mauser type action correct?

Here would be a mauser type action you could build from.
 

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Velo Dog

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I remember your posting and the unfortunate state of that rifle.
Have a couple question for you is how much of the work are you going to be doing yourself?
Are you planning on restocking after you have the action rebarreled or bored/rifled?
Based on both your posts you wish to use a mauser type action correct?

Here would be a mauser type action you could build from.
I’m +1 with you Dave on this Zastava Mauser being an excellent basis for conversion to 9.2x62 caliber.
Plus, at only $495.US, it is very affordable as well.
Even the stock on this one will be a good one, after a bit of light refinishing.
Way cheaper than re-stocking.
 

WebleyGreene455

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Hello WebleyGreene,

Most of the magazines on the typical 8x57 Mauser are too short for the cartridge you want to use.
A professional Gunsmith can modify a ‘98 Mauser action to accept what amounts to a “.30-06 length” magazine.
However, this is expensive.

That said, I too am quite fond of the 9.3x62 cartridge.
I had mine built on a 1950’s vintage FN Mauser, that had been originally sold by Sears-Roebuck & Company, known as the “Sears Model 50”, back in those times.
As such, mine had formerly been a .30-06 caliber.

The metal work amounted to nothing more than rebarreling to 9.3x62.
With no additional metal work, it functions as perfectly as it did when it was a .30-06.
(The installation of an English walnut stock that I selected was not cheap but, worth it to me).

Anywhooo, I hope my thoughts on the 57MM family of cartridges magazine length vs the 64MM family of cartridges length does not discourage you.
I hope it helps you avoid selecting the wrong basis for your intended project.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.
Velo Dog, when you say the 64mm family of cartridges, are you perhaps thinking of the 9.3 Brenneke and not the 9.3 designed by Otto Bock? I was under the impression that the 9.3x62mm Bock designed was intended to, and can easily, fit in an 7.92x57mm action. I've read of a number of 8mm-to-9.3x62 conversions and none of them described a magazine box issue, so I'm a little puzzled. If my understanding's incorrect, I'd naturally like to make sure.
 

bruce moulds

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a 30/06 length action will be your friend whatever.
it offers more choices to a handloader.
if you buy a decent action, put a decent barrel and stock on it, you will have a decent rifle.
how many people now drive around in a 1928 car?
modern cars and rifle designs have so much more to offer.
bruce.
 

Velo Dog

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Velo Dog, when you say the 64mm family of cartridges, are you perhaps thinking of the 9.3 Brenneke and not the 9.3 designed by Otto Bock? I was under the impression that the 9.3x62mm Bock designed was intended to, and can easily, fit in an 7.92x57mm action. I've read of a number of 8mm-to-9.3x62 conversions and none of them described a magazine box issue, so I'm a little puzzled. If my understanding's incorrect, I'd naturally like to make sure.
Hi again WebleyGreene455,

I apologize for any confusion I have caused.
Yes and mostly no, I’m not thinking primarily of the 9.3x64 cartridge.
Indeed I am thinking of your intended cartridge, the 9.3x62 one.

The reason I mentioned the “64MM family of cartridges” as compared to the “57MM family of cartridges is because, the .30-06 is about 63MM or 64MM, depending on who’s opinion you accept.
The one’s we all agree on as actually being 64MM (9.3x64, 7x64, plus a couple more I can’t remember at the moment) will just barely fit into the Mauser magazine box designed for them, when loaded with common projectiles associated with these cartridges.

I have owned and used more than one or two surplus WW-I and WW-II Model ‘98 Mausers, in both 7x57 and 8x57 calibers.
Admittedly, and for obvious reasons, I’ve never tried to load these with a longer cartridge.
As I recall, best I can with my geezer mind, these rifles, when loaded with ammunition designed for same and / or their dimensionally equivalent soft point type ammunition, left no room in their magazines, regarding fore and aft space, while their cartridges were in place.
Likewise, the Gunsmith who did the work on my 9.3x62, while still in the discussion phase of my rifle build, had admonished me to bring in a “.30-06 length” action, when ready to have my 9.3 built.

Perhaps you are correct, in that 5 loaded 9.3x62 live rounds will fit properly into a magazine designed for the 8x57 cartridge.
If that turns out to be so, I will apologize yet again for causing you any confusion.
For my hard earned money, I’d want to make sure my ammunition would fit, with no modifications and if not, I’d want my Gunsmith’s estimate, on moving one of the stock screws forward and re-fitting a longer magazine plus, reshaping the feed ramp if needed and such, before I bought the 8x57 though.

Seems to me that the rifle that AZDAVE just recently posted here would be absolutely perfect for what you are planning.
Likewise, the advice that Graham Hunter just posted about just buying a ready to go 9.3x62 is perfectly wise.
Both of those fellows likely have “been there, done that” and so are worth listening to.

Less important but perhaps worth mentioning, I once had a Brazilian M-98 Mauser, in caliber .30-06, not sporterized.
It was made with a notch milled in the forward receiver ring, for the longer cartridge, (not unlike the same type and location of notch in the forward receiver ring of early Model 70 Winchesters in .375 H&H caliber).
Surplus Brazilian Mausers in .30-06 are not rare and I would guess could be an excellent foundation for your 9.3x62 project.

However you settle on your project, I look forward to reading on how it ends up.
Again, I am quite fond of the 9.3x62 cartridge, particularly when loaded with the original style of 286 grain round nosed projectile.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.
 
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Wyatt Smith

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Here is a picture of my Chilean 1935 7x57 (made in Oberndorf Germany) loaded with a magazine of 30-06 factory cartridges. As you can see there is a little room to spare. There’s a good chance that rifle will work. The Yugo Mauser rifles had a specific x57 length action and would not work.
image.jpg
 

Velo Dog

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Hello Wyatt Smith and WebleyGreene455,

Looks like I stand corrected and therefore I owe WebleyGreene455 an apology for blowing fog around his planned rifle build.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Thank you for posting this photo.

All these many long years, I was believing that, military Mauser magazines were each dimensioned very specifically, to whatever cartridge the rifle was originally manufactured in.
Perhaps the 7x57’s original military loading of the long for caliber 175 grain bullet, explains why .30-06 ammunition fits in your magazine.
Either way, I just now learned something and will forever be more careful about repeating what I’ve read and what Gunsmiths have told me.
That’s not to say that I’m going to skip trying my intended ammunition in the magazine of any rifle I was planning to have converted to a longer cartridge.
But, I will no longer automatically turn my nose up at one chambered in a shorter cartridge, when I’m considering having it converted it to a longer one.

Thanks Again,
Paul.
 
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WebleyGreene455

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Hello Wyatt Smith and WebleyGreene455,

Looks like I stand corrected and therefore I owe WebleyGreene455 an apology for blowing fog around his planned rifle build.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Thank you for posting this photo.

All these many long years, I was believing that, military Mauser magazines were each dimensioned very specifically, to whatever cartridge the rifle was originally manufactured in.
Perhaps the 7x57’s original military loading of the long for caliber 175 grain bullet, explains why .30-06 ammunition fits in your magazine.
Either way, I just now learned something and will forever be more careful about repeating what I’ve read and what Gunsmiths have told me.
That’s not to say that I’m going to skip trying my intended ammunition in the magazine of any rifle I was planning to have converted to a longer cartridge.
But, I will no longer automatically turn my nose up at one chambered in a shorter cartridge, when I’m considering having it converted it to a longer one.

Thanks Again,
Paul.
No need to apologize, Paul. There were definitely a few oddball Mausers with intermediate-length receivers, like Wyatt Smith mentions. From the Hoosier Gun Works reference page:

4) Intermediate Large Ring M-98 ,(Large ring, Short action)
1.410 diameter. receiver ring, 8.50 in length, with screw spacing of 7.620
Intermediate Large ring have a threaded shank diameter of 1.10 in. With 12 threads per inch.
Mexicans by FN and Belgium, the M24, M47, M48 by FN and Yugoslavia. A large number of M48 Yugoslavian large-ring M98 Mauser have recently been dropped on the market. This M-98 short is considered an intermediate action, and WILL NOT fit a Standard 98 Mauser stocks and standard bolts will not interchange.. Receiver stripped weight 15.0 oz.
Plus there are the Turkish models with small-ring-sized barrel shanks in a large-ring action, which come in standard and intermediate sizes. I would be hesitant to convert any of those to a longer cartridge, although I expect it's been done before, and even more so trying to convert a small-ring 8mm Mauser like a WWI Kar98A.

But I certainly would want to measure and try out cartridges as you say, just to make sure.

~~W.G.455
 

Velo Dog

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No need to apologize, Paul. There were definitely a few oddball Mausers with intermediate-length receivers, like Wyatt Smith mentions. From the Hoosier Gun Works reference page:

4) Intermediate Large Ring M-98 ,(Large ring, Short action)
1.410 diameter. receiver ring, 8.50 in length, with screw spacing of 7.620
Intermediate Large ring have a threaded shank diameter of 1.10 in. With 12 threads per inch.
Mexicans by FN and Belgium, the M24, M47, M48 by FN and Yugoslavia. A large number of M48 Yugoslavian large-ring M98 Mauser have recently been dropped on the market. This M-98 short is considered an intermediate action, and WILL NOT fit a Standard 98 Mauser stocks and standard bolts will not interchange.. Receiver stripped weight 15.0 oz.
Plus there are the Turkish models with small-ring-sized barrel shanks in a large-ring action, which come in standard and intermediate sizes. I would be hesitant to convert any of those to a longer cartridge, although I expect it's been done before, and even more so trying to convert a small-ring 8mm Mauser like a WWI Kar98A.

But I certainly would want to measure and try out cartridges as you say, just to make sure.

~~W.G.455
Thanks W.G.455,

I learn something new every day and this was no exception.
Furthermore and as mentioned already, I look forward to reading up on how your project turns out.

Cheers,
Paul.
 
 

 

 

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