Acquisition of a Double Rifle

[machinistbutler]

My problem with the $5000 customized CZ is the same as the $100,000 Ford.

Buy a Porsche 911 twin turbo, or a used Ferrari for a $150,000. The reply…but I can buy a crappy Ford Mustang for $60,000, and then send it to Saleen, and then Foose, and then add this, tear out that, and for $120,000 I’ve saved $30,000 over a used ferrari or a new Porsche 911 twin turbo.

Correct. But you still own a Ford. And a Ford will never be a Ferrari. And if that additional 15% price difference between trash you can afford and a super high quality car is make-or-break for your budget, you shouldn’t be buying either.

Thus, the $1500 CZ being transformed into a $5000 CZ is a bad deal. It’s a great $1500 gun, its a truly unremarkable, overpriced factory-mass-produced soulless $5000 gun. For $6000 and up you’re into best quality hand built guns of incredible quality. It’s an insult to the best guns to be compared to a mass produced gun 85% of their costs.

Just my take. And I don’t hate CZs at all, but I hate mixed metaphors and its a frequent, absurd comparison.

I had a fellow come over the other day to buy a custom built, unused, Abercrombie & Fitch Dumoulin Mauser. He wasn’t sure if he was going to buy it, or a new factory mass produced Winchester model 70 super grade with a maple wood stock for the same price. I kept biting my lip, coming very close to refusing to sell my gun to him. I found it an insult to the craft to allow the gun to be compared to a garden variety gun that will be at a pawn shop in ten years. I did sell it to him, but I hated the comparison and it bothered me someone couldn’t tell the vast difference in quality for equal price.

”I was on the way to buy the Ferrari but I saw a Chevy Camaro on the way and figured, same thing, so I got that instead” <cringe>

New Ford trucks are pushing 100k from the factory.

Not everyone can afford the Ferrari.

The Winchester that will end up in a pawn shop will probably shoot as good as the Abercrombie and Fitch Mauser.

Rigby found the big CZ action good enough to use on their rifles for a while. Good enough for me to get a full custom AHR .

It is nice to be able to afford such rifles, not everyone can.

 

[machinistbutler]

Actually just had my Belgium Browning in 308 Norma delivered by my boss in a cool little Porsche convertible. Awesome looking little car, not sure I would even fit in it....

 

[rookhawk]

New Ford trucks are pushing 100k from the factory.

Not everyone can afford the Ferrari.

The Winchester that will end up in a pawn shop will probably shoot as good as the Abercrombie and Fitch Mauser.

Rigby found the big CZ action good enough to use on their rifles for a while. Good enough for me to get a full custom AHR .

It is nice to be able to afford such rifles, not everyone can.

For those that can’t afford better, I get it. I’m not rich either. But before spending $7000 on a decked-out top of the line AHR (same price as REALLY good rifles) I’d suggest someone buy a barely used AHR of similar quality on this forum. I‘ve seen several sell for the low $2s. Great value. Better than anything else at $2k. But the guy that “can’t afford better” and drops near-parity money on a new one leaves me scratching my head. The evidence my opinion hold’s merit is they are selling near-mint on this classified forum all the time.

I can’t afford to lose $4500 on a gun if I choose to sell it off. Some people are evidently so rich that they can, yet so poor they couldn’t afford the extra $1500 to get something they would never want to sell in the first place.

I cannot afford to make financial mistakes with my money. I buy less things less often because of that. I always use a coupon at the drive-thru window. I pay cash for my cars. I don’t have magazine subscriptions, or streaming services, or any other OPEX revolving monthly expenses. I’m just too cheap. But I do go on safari more than once a year and I do own best guns. I’m just really, really careful to buy value.

My kid got sick when she was 4 years old. I’m not rich and I live in a place in the world that is very, very expensive survive with cost of living. (E.g. small 3 bedroom house, $15k property taxes) But that’s where the jobs are as much as I hate it. I collected decent quality guns as a bachelor in my 20s. I was able to sell off my collection in my early 30s, take off work for two years, pay all my bills, and be at my daughter’s bedside. Wise investments that were also “fun toys” saved my ass in this world.

I hate to see people that work so hard for their money cut corners on that last inch of quality to save a couple bucks, only to end up with 1/10th the quality and ending up with no asset they could rely upon if bad times in life come. If we go into a Great Depression, AHRs will be bought by gun dealers for $400-$600, those same gun dealers might pay $3000 for a wisely bought gun that cost virtually the same money. Even in the worst of times, best quality items have held their values. (Art, Dutch Old Masters, Rolexes, Ming Vases, Survivor Class Muscle cars, etc., etc.)

Buy once, cry once. Buy less, get more.

 

[machinistbutler]

@rookhawk I think the AHR used to offer CZ upgrades to factory rifles, buy they also made full customs with custom stocks, barrels sights.

The full custom ones I would not call a mass produced rifle. The Action is Brno or CZ, but everything else is custom. Those ones are pricier.

I totally agree on the used market . I purchased my custom AHR used with an extra stock, a VX6 scope and two sets of Talley qd rings. It did cost a bunch more than a factory cz by a fair bit, but it is a truly beautiful rifle in my favourite caliber . I would pay the same in a second for it.

The 270 rifle you just sold is a beauty though, that would probably never decrease in value no matter the times!

Back on the double topic I had my 470 out recently and did a bunch of shooting . It is firing the swift A frames , woodleigh 500 gr softs , federal factory loads with the A frames as well as Hornady 500 grain solids almost identically.

I think I lucked out finding this 470.

 

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk I think the AHR used to offer CZ upgrades to factory rifles, buy they also made full customs with custom stocks, barrels sights.

The full custom ones I would not call a mass produced rifle. The Action is Brno or CZ, but everything else is custom. Those ones are pricier.

I totally agree on the used market . I purchased my custom AHR used with an extra stock, a VX6 scope and two sets of Talley qd rings. It did cost a bunch more than a factory cz by a fair bit, but it is a truly beautiful rifle in my favourite caliber . I would pay the same in a second for it. View attachment 422161

The 270 rifle you just sold is a beauty though, that would probably never decrease in value no matter the times!

Back on the double topic I had my 470 out recently and did a bunch of shooting . It is firing the swift A frames , woodleigh 500 gr softs , federal factory loads with the A frames as well as Hornady 500 grain solids almost identically.

I think I lucked out finding this 470.

Perfect caliber and exceptional bullet selections you Have there, what more can you ask for? The wood is perfect, straight head, angled straight grain through the grip, lots of figure in the cheek. Congrats.

 

[machinistbutler]

Perfect caliber and exceptional bullet selections you Have there, what more can you ask for? The wood is perfect, straight head, angled straight grain through the grip, lots of figure in the cheek. Congrats.

I guess the one thing that would be better is if it was a Heym instead of a Merkel.

I have only ever seen one double in person before I purchased this one. This one had a nice wood upgrade, in the caliber I wanted.

There was a Heym in 470 at Ralph Martinis , good god it was a beauty, may still be there . The price was over double what this Merkel cost. I am sure the Heym is worth every cent, but I couldn't justify the price.

The Merkel has been perfect so far, shoots very nice. Kicks a bit, and I will have to do a lot more shooting with it to be confident enough to hunt with it.

What a feeling putting it together though. Man I love that double.

 

[rookhawk]

I guess the one thing that would be better is if it was a Heym instead of a Merkel.

I have only ever seen one double in person before I purchased this one. This one had a nice wood upgrade, in the caliber I wanted.

There was a Heym in 470 at Ralph Martinis , good god it was a beauty, may still be there . The price was over double what this Merkel cost. I am sure the Heym is worth every cent, but I couldn't justify the price.

The Merkel has been perfect so far, shoots very nice. Kicks a bit, and I will have to do a lot more shooting with it to be confident enough to hunt with it.

What a feeling putting it together though. Man I love that double.

I’ve seen some really problematic wood on a couple Merkels over the years. Usually, a guy is bragging about the wood so I pay attention and sure enough, burl all over the wrist and head. Perhaps their QC got better, perhaps you just hit a home run with yours. That wood blank alone on yours would exceed $2500 anywhere fine logs are sold.

 

[machinistbutler]

I’ve seen some really problematic wood on a couple Merkels over the years. Usually, a guy is bragging about the wood so I pay attention and sure enough, burl all over the wrist and head. Perhaps their QC got better, perhaps you just hit a home run with yours. That wood blank alone on yours would exceed $2500 anywhere fine logs are sold.

The original owner was not happy with the plain factory wood, and he had a new set made up. I believe it did cost him dearly.

I don't think he liked the recoil of the 470, as apparently fired less than half a box of cartridges. Worked out very well for me . The rifle fits me very nice.

 

[rookhawk]

The original owner was not happy with the plain factory wood, and he had a new set made up. I believe it did cost him dearly.

I don't think he liked the recoil of the 470, as apparently fired less than half a box of cartridges. Worked out very well for me . The rifle fits me very nice.

View attachment 422169

The left shoe drops! I had a low opinion of factory Merkel stocking and their wood. I had a very high opinion of your stock. I now realize whats going on here.

This is a case and point of why not to buy new. The original guy bought a $12,000 Merkel, then had to dump a fortune into a custom stock. I’m going to say he had $5500+ wrapped into that stock. THen he bought $800 in projectiles.

Whatever you paid, you got a vastly superior gun and I’m assuming you didn’t pay $18,300 for the whole setup, huh?

And this is why I’m a big fan of Heyms. That original purchaser went cheap and tried to save a buck or two so he bought a Merkel instead of a heym. He then ended up putting more into it MORE than the cost of an actual Heym. He then sold it at a big loss, of which @machinistbutler reaped the windfall.

P.S. - Machinistbutler, that custom stock is light on oil. You may want to rub on a few layers to close those pores and protect the finish a bit. It’s very nice, it would be a shame to have it deteriorate.

 

[machinistbutler]

The left shoe drops! I had a low opinion of factory Merkel stocking and their wood. I had a very high opinion of your stock. I now realize whats going on here.

This is a case and point of why not to buy new. The original guy bought a $12,000 Merkel, then had to dump a fortune into a custom stock. I’m going to say he had $5500+ wrapped into that stock. THen he bought $800 in projectiles.

Whatever you paid, you got a vastly superior gun and I’m assuming you didn’t pay $18,300 for the whole setup, huh?

And this is why I’m a big fan of Heyms. That original purchaser went cheap and tried to save a buck or two so he bought a Merkel instead of a heym. He then ended up putting more into it MORE than the cost of an actual Heym. He then sold it at a big loss, of which @machinistbutler reaped the windfall.

P.S. - Machinistbutler, that custom stock is light on oil. You may want to rub on a few layers to close those pores and protect the finish a bit. It’s very nice, it would be a shame to have it deteriorate.

Yes the shop where I ordered it from was telling me about some of the costs associated with getting the stock made in Germany for it.

The price was listed a bit high but I happened to look as it went on sale, so I was able to purchase for $10,000 Canadian dollars, about 8300 usd with taxes .

I had seen a few others for sale, a fairly local shop has a beautiful Krieghoff in 470 as well.

There were a ton of 500's for sale, but I had wanted a 470 for as long as I could remember, and when I seen the pics of the wood I was sold on it. May have got a bit lucky with how it shoots but so far I am very pleased.

In regards to the stock oil what do you guys recommend ? All I have used on other rifles is tung oil or BLO. It would be nice to keep this one looking good for a long time.

Thanks again @rookhawk . This forum is the best. Easiest to use and the experience of the members here is unsurpassed.

 

[Daniel Cary]

The left shoe drops! I had a low opinion of factory Merkel stocking and their wood. I had a very high opinion of your stock. I now realize whats going on here.

This is a case and point of why not to buy new. The original guy bought a $12,000 Merkel, then had to dump a fortune into a custom stock. I’m going to say he had $5500+ wrapped into that stock. THen he bought $800 in projectiles.

Whatever you paid, you got a vastly superior gun and I’m assuming you didn’t pay $18,300 for the whole setup, huh?

And this is why I’m a big fan of Heyms. That original purchaser went cheap and tried to save a buck or two so he bought a Merkel instead of a heym. He then ended up putting more into it MORE than the cost of an actual Heym. He then sold it at a big loss, of which @machinistbutler reaped the windfall.

P.S. - Machinistbutler, that custom stock is light on oil. You may want to rub on a few layers to close those pores and protect the finish a bit. It’s very nice, it would be a shame to have it deteriorate.

I 2nd the OP's question if you don't mind, as far as a safe/good polish for the exterior? Many Thanks!

 

[rookhawk]

I 2nd the OP's question if you don't mind, as far as a safe/good polish for the exterior? Many Thanks!

depends on how far you want to go. The hardest to do but the highest quality is Purdey slacum and oil. You have to make it or buy it. 50 coats. A year long process.

alternatives can be BLO and rotten stone with a hardener/ dryer.

or any number of things. Whole books on quality finishes.

but as is usually the case, the wrong way is the popular way. Truoil is not correct, nor is any 1-3 coat finish.

for an already finished gun with some open pores, it needs a slurry of blo with dryers and rotten stone, than polished out over and over.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Yes the shop where I ordered it from was telling me about some of the costs associated with getting the stock made in Germany for it.

The price was listed a bit high but I happened to look as it went on sale, so I was able to purchase for $10,000 Canadian dollars, about 8300 usd with taxes .

I had seen a few others for sale, a fairly local shop has a beautiful Krieghoff in 470 as well.

There were a ton of 500's for sale, but I had wanted a 470 for as long as I could remember, and when I seen the pics of the wood I was sold on it. May have got a bit lucky with how it shoots but so far I am very pleased.

In regards to the stock oil what do you guys recommend ? All I have used on other rifles is tung oil or BLO. It would be nice to keep this one looking good for a long time.

Thanks again @rookhawk . This forum is the best. Easiest to use and the experience of the members here is unsurpassed.

@machinistbutler
The oil I use on my wood stocks is
LINSPEED, no it's not a,typo search on Dr Google it is for rifle sticks and the finest quality furniture. To protect my stocks and metal work I also use GILLEYS GUN WAX AND POLISH. This provides a finish water just runs off and dust just wires off.
Bob