A Very Disturbing Lion Hunt

Discussion in 'Hunting Videos' started by Christina Nyczepir, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. LivingTheDream

    LivingTheDream AH Legend

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    Well I will continue with my foolish and shameful opinion...because I didn't watch the videos and don't care to. A bunch of guys some shooting a lion from the truck isn't my thing. The cameraman is clearly biased against hunting. Full of "I thinks" and "he saids". I don't have to watch it to know where the conversation is going.

    I find it interesting that you post pictures of your African kills and I am sure they were done in a high fence area. So morally, the release sable is ok, but the wahoo hunting lions isn't. When you "shot" pheasants in Virginia, did you say I don't like the way this birds are flying and stop shooting? Or did you shoot birds until the hunt was over?

    This cameraman did break laws, he knew he was going on a lion hunt, what did he think was going to happen? He waited 4 years because he was intimidated? Or scared? Please, he wants some fame and I think he broke privacy laws but definitely the clients trust. Is that ethical? Are we now suppose to believe the moral high ground of the cameraman when he already shows us his true ethics.

    This whole thing stinks to high heavens! Now let's argue some more on captive breed hunting as well as ethics vs legality, as if those haven't happened before. I'm sure some anti troll is reading this tonight and just having a big time. Whether you like it or not and whether you care to admit it you are spreading their propaganda!

    No one gave a shit in 2012, the industry continued, and honestly no one should give a shit in 2016, all of our efforts need to be focused on conservation, stopping import bans and getting more people into hunting. We can't change the past and need to focus on protecting the future.
     

  2. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

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    Agreed, @Christina Nyczepir there are those that would look down on shooting a high fenced SA buff over a feed trough at night also. How's the saying go, "those who live in glass houses".
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016

  3. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Legend

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    I'm sure the weight taken off his shoulders was counterbalanced by the new weight in his pocket.
     

  4. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Legend

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    Sorry guys but did not watch the video, and dont plan on doing it either.Any chance that we can find out who the cameraman was? Just want to make sure he never gets any work in our area again.
     
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  5. peras

    peras AH Elite

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    Agree with Marius, I am not even going to watch this. Most probably the current lion situation (PHASA and USFW) put him out of a job and he found an alternative way to fill his pockets. Just shows how we do the job for the antis.
     
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  6. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    But Brickburn...the point is that its not hunting...its shooting. That is what the brits call it....and they never pretend to call it anything else...a nice shooting experience...yes...but it aint hunting..

    Personally I think Christina is right, she tries to debate questionable hunting practise in SA in a civil manner....so why the outcry..??

    Accusing Christina of being an anti is idiotic......apparently she struck a raw nerve with some of you...:whistle:

    Personally I think both the breeders of these lions and the "hunters" who participate in this has trouble with their moral compasses, for the breeders/farmers its all about easy money...and for the hunters...well....how can you take pride in harvesting a trophy on bred animals..?

    Do you want to shoot or hunt your trophies fellas..?
     
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  7. billc

    billc AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I take great pride in the raised lioness my son hunted. Taken at the age of 14 shot at 80 yds to only die at 20 to30 yds in front of him after charging after the first shot. Do I wish I could have take him on a hunt for a lion in zim or moz. Well sure I do but could I afford it . Do I care what people like you(OTHER HUNTERS OR ANTI'S) think about what hunt we did well hell no.

    Now as soon as we all as hunter realize we do not need to like how everyone else legally hunts and guess what that comes with the shooting part to. We just might start saving our rights to hunt and have firearms as we like.


    After catching up on this thread this morning all I can say is wow we are so screwed as hunters. From the org. poster believe because the camera added it is illegal to shot a lion from the truck to just the attacks everyone is willing to do to other hunters. Guys we are past the point were if we stop a certain kind of hunting the anti's will go away. Our rights as hunters are under attack more then ever and that is the only fact we need to really understand and defend.
     
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  8. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    I'm sure his name was shared but I didn't care enough after listening to his rubbish to care. The short video (second one posted) should have it.

    I think you're probably right. What would be really interesting is to know how many lion hunts this guy filmed after the first one in 2012. If bet a nice sum that this not his only hunt ever even though he hnew of all the issues. :cool: Marius and others were right earlier, the weight of his soul replaced with the weight of silver.

    @Pawprint Safaris can you please confirm what I believe we already know - is it legal to shoot a farm raised lion from a truck on private property?
     

  9. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Christina was a lot of things last night, but civil was not one of them. If you think she was please go back and read her posts again. I'm not saying others were 100% civil either, but she certainly was not. The condescending tone she had as well as repeated statement of "fact" that was not verified by Christina before posting certainly didnt help her cause. A couple of my personal favorite one liners:

    I understand that Christina is passionate, but she reached a level of rudeness last night that is quite rare for AH. I hope she had a good night's sleep and awakes in a better mood today.

    Agree. She isn't anti. Anti farm lions? Perhaps. But not anti hunting overall. She also doesn't seem to be anti "bred to shoot" animals either (other than lions and birds) as she has taken some of those animals and even posted them in this thread I believe.
     
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  10. mrpoindexter

    mrpoindexter AH Fanatic

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    For people who think that it isn't a hunt, do they discount all hunting done from a blind by bowhunters? I cannot imagine the work to trophy ratio it would take to spot and stalk all the plains game to less than 40 yards for effective bow range.

    I think getting into a debate about what is hunting and what isn't just has a slight smell of condescension towards what the speaker perceives as lesser hunters. If such greater hunters allow all us lesser hunters to be eliminated from the hunting pool, they will find their trophy quality vastly improve right up until they are no longer able to hunt because it isn't much of a fight when you eliminate 75% of your allies in a battle you are already losing.

    When I was in South Africa, I saw a guy who shot a buff from a truck with a rifle. It isn't ho wI would do it and I didn't feel it was very sporting, but I am not going to judge him. Maybe somebody who is more judgmental would have had a change of heart if he was helped out of the truck and into a wheelchair after the hunt. At that point, does it become OK again to them? Judge not, lest ye be judged. There are many forms of hunting. All are under attack. Either we band together or we fight amongst ourselves and let the winner take on the world alone.
     
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  11. Christina Nyczepir

    Christina Nyczepir AH Enthusiast

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    I do apologize if I offended anyone. I was not meaning to be "condescending", but did allow my temper to rise. That is why I left the post. My comment about "males" was meant to be made in jest. I live in an all male household. Raised sons. The frustration comes in that we hold it against antis for their views because they refuse to fully research the issue of hunting. Yet, people are expressing opinions (strong opinions) about a video they haven't even watched in full. If you don't want to watch it, I don't blame you. Its horrible. But why attack the messenger? I can understand if you disagree with my viewpoints, but to accuse me of being an anti?

    And, again, I have no issue with hunting captive bred lions. I understand the importance the monies raised play in conservation. Though it is not a way I would ever choose to hunt lion. I do not hold it against others having that experience. My issue is in how this hunt was conducted overall. More ethically, than legally. Though, the second video states that laws were broken. I put that question up on other social media sites. Some outfitters are saying laws were broken, other's are saying they were not. Thank you for those of you who did watch, and for expressing your opinions. Its the only way I'll learn. :)
     
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  12. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    not getting into this so my one comment will be......, but sorry anyone who is told that they are going on a 9 day hunt which will involve/allow them to take 10 lions and that they are WILD LIONS......is either living in cloud cuckoo land , or must be clueless...........
     

  13. Gemsbok Gangsta

    Gemsbok Gangsta AH Enthusiast

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    Put and Take not hunting but killing. This happens in small high fence in SA for "trophy" Kudu as well as the US for "trophy" whitetail. It's a money thing plain and simple.
     

  14. BWH

    BWH AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Totally agree.... The grey is define "small". It's all subjective unless defined.
     
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  15. Hank2211

    Hank2211 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Pondoro, are you referring to the pheasant or to the lions? If to the pheasant, I can tell you I've been shooting pheasant since I was a child, both wild and pen raised, and I have yet to find any ascertainable difference between how the two react when approached by a dog. Call it what you will if it makes you feel superior, but there is no difference.

    If you are referring to the lions, this begs the question of whether, in your mind, there is any "hunting" at all in South Africa, or if all that takes place within fenced areas is "shooting?"

    I agree with you on this one. Christina is clearly not an anti, and some reacted perhaps more emotionally than they should have.

    I assume you feel the same way about those who breed sable, and roan, and buffalo, and , and, and, whitetail deer, and elk, and, and, and, etc. No one should take pride in hunting any "bred animal?" So those who have posted hunt reports describing their sable hunts in South Africa should take no pride in their trophy? Those who have taken beautiful buffalo after days of tracking and stalking in South Africa have ho right to take pride in their trophies? But those who spot a buffalo from a truck in Zimbabwe, get off and shoot it on the spot, do have that right?

    And those outfitters who breed game for the hunting market have no moral compass?

    Or do you limit your views to lion only, and if so, on what moral or ethical ground can you distinguish between lion and other animals?

    And lastly, "it's all about easy money?" I suggest you visit animal breeders and especially predator breeders and see just how "easy" it is to make a living doing this!

    So many questions . . .
     

  16. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    Hank...I was thinking of pheasants in my comment to Brickburn....I have no problem with people shooting bred birds...but I call that shooting..

    Maybe I painted with too broad a pencil.....breeding plains game, ie antelope for game farms is ok by me...the challenge of hunting them on a large game farm is about the same as in the wild...and that goes for cape buffalo too...

    But lets face it.....breeding lion for a canned hunt is much more delicate in the eyes of the anti-hunters.....animals like lion and elephant provoke much stronger reactions....Disney factor if you like..imagine the outcry if someone bred elephant to be shot..?

    I think it would be wise if the hunting industry draw a line and skip these canned lion hunts.....
     
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  17. Hank2211

    Hank2211 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Thanks for the clarification.

    I understand your point about the emotional impact of lions. I would be foolish not to agree with it. But we need understand that those who recoil at the hunting of captive bred lions will also recoil at the hunting of wild lions. I don't think those people will differentiate when they see a trophy picture. And indeed, I think you could argue that sitting in a machan waiting over a lion bait, requires far less "courage" or nerve, if you will, than tracking a lion on foot. And doesn't look great on camera. I have little doubt that my wife - who tolerates hunting because of me - would find tracking more "manly" than the baiting.

    There are no easy answers here, and getting agreement on anything is difficult.

    But I look with hope to the day when hunters can agree on one thing: so long as what another hunter is doing is legal, then perhaps we, as hunters, can keep our definitions of what is ethical - to ourselves, and not attack those who are engaged in a legal activity with which we might not agree. At least when we are talking to "the outside world."
     

  18. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

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    Pondoro I understand the point your trying to make but I have to disagree. I have hunted lion in SA and it was every bit and more of a hunt than anywhere else. At least in my opinion anyway. I tracked the animal on foot for miles, was in close proximity and damn near was eaten, and no baits were used. The ranch I was on was massive. I can't remember now but suffice to say it was huge.the animal was part of a breeding population as well as there were plenty of lionesses around. We found lion killed plains game so obviously they were hunting on their own. There was nothing canned about it. I will proudly put my lion hunt up against all those " wild" baited lions shot. I say shot because that's exactly what the were.
    I get real testy when one starts telling me that their views, morals, and ethics are superior to mine. Especially when people do that and 1. Generalize 2. Don't know what they are really talking about in that specific issue.
     
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  19. LivingTheDream

    LivingTheDream AH Legend

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    This is my whole point and my problem with this thread. We are arguing ethics! How many are against captive breed lions? How many are against deer baiting? Well if it wrong for deer it most be wrong for bear and it has to them be wrong for leopards and lions. Or we are against hunting behind a fence, well that's all of South Africa hunting pretty much! Or animals being raised and released, oh dear how many pheasants get released by states in the Midwest. See where this goes?

    Oh so hunting captive lions offends the anti's, well then by all means outlaw it. They are also offended by owning pets! They are offended by any hunting period!!! The problem with captive breed hunting is that we has hunters don't stand together and tell them to pound sand, we get into moral arguments. When they give death threats to a 12 year old for shooting a giraffe, we stand our ground together!!! Hunting Elephants, we stand together, hunting whitetails, they don't even try to bring it up, knowing the reaction they will get will be devastating to their cause.

    Why I'm passionate and get upset about this and sorry if I offend any one is that this is a Hunting website!!!! I don't need to see some BS video of a cameraman with a clear anti hunting agenda that can't prove anything other then shooting from a truck and no one can even figure out if this is legal at the time it was done or legal now, or whatever, telling me what is hunting and what is wrong. The fact that an anti hunting video is on this website does nothing more then spread the anti's message.

    I have things I won't do morally when it comes to hunting but you never hear me say a bad word about other hunters because there is too few of us and we get enough pressure without us bashing each other.

    In the mean time, here is what I learn, know the cameraman you hire, and make sure you have a lock tight release contract.
     
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  20. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

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    +1
     
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