A Very Disturbing Lion Hunt

Discussion in 'Hunting Videos' started by Christina Nyczepir, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. Christina Nyczepir

    Christina Nyczepir AH Enthusiast

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    A few weeks ago, I posted this video on my Facebook site. I found it incredibly disturbing, to say the least. If you have the chance, please watch it in its entirety. I think you will be as grieved as I am. Some would say this is ammo for Antis. Well then, we need to stop giving them ammo by exposing such outfitters and removing them from the industry. Just my thoughts. I would love to hear yours. Thank you.

     

  2. charleslabounty

    charleslabounty AH Veteran

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    Well, I hate to be the first on this and risk suffering the wrath of all....
    Ms. Christina, if you think this is ammo for the "antis" why would you help them by posting this on Facebook? I get expressing your feelings on AH and maybe contacting the outfitter or even SCI directly with your concerns, but Facebook.
    But my reactions, considering I have never seen a lion in the wild:
    I assume all permits and licenses were in order and everything was legal.
    I didn't care for the animal being shot up against the old fence/wall either, but the hunters did not herd her into that area and it could have just as easily been a natural barrier, like a rock faced wall. The shooting in the warthog burrow also seemed off to me, but again, the animal made that mistake.
    As far as the "high fives" and celebrations, that's not my style either. However, I think I hurt my PH's feelings after shooting a very nice wildebeest (+25") and I was solemn as always when killing one of God's creatures. His exact words were "I don't think you understand what a fantastic trophy animal this is that you just shot".
    And I'm sure being in front the camera was cause for a little more hamming it up by the NY guys. ( I grew up in rural NY.)
    In short, I was not deeply disgusted by this hunt or behavior, but maybe just a little put off. And shooting 10 lions in a week sounds like a lot - but I have no knowledge of population density in that area.
    Was it strange no cubs were seen?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
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  3. Christina Nyczepir

    Christina Nyczepir AH Enthusiast

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    First of all, I don't have antis on my Facebook site and keep it pretty locked down. Secondly, when I posted the link here earlier, the following info from the site is not coming up with the video. My apologies. The following comment is posted with the video on the Youtube site. It may change your opinion a bit. Education and awareness is the first step to ending what I consider tragedies like this hunt:

    "Published on Jun 29, 2016

    This is the original hunting footage in the Carte Blanche feature and is from a 10 LION / 9 DAY hunt organised by Bob Vitro, a New York based agent.

    8 CAPTIVE BRED female lions were released onto the farm De Klerk Safaris farm Wilzenau, situated in the infamous LION ALLEY in the North-West Province, South Africa. They were all hunted over the next 4 days. 2 CAPTIVE BRED male lions were released on day for of the hunt and hunted on day 5 and day 9. IMMORAL, UNETHICAL and ILLEGAL.

    The South African outfitter - Stormberg Elangeni Safaris – organised 5 professional hunters who knew that they were hunting captive bred lion James quin, Harry Sparks, John Sparks, Paulie Inman and Davie Birch.

    The American hunters believed they were hunting wild lion that knew their territory and were able to defend themselves. In reality the lion were DOMESTICATED LION, that had no way of eluding the hunters. They were DRUGGED and CONFUSED. They did everything they could to HIDE from the hunters, sheltering under thick bush, climbing trees, hiding in a warthog burrow and next to a Boma. They were shot where they were hiding. THEY STOOD NO CHANCE.

    We call on the Professional Hunters’ Association of South Africa to ban these “Professional Hunters” and the Department of Environmental Affairs to investigate and prosecute the hunters, Outfitter and Game Farm for illegal hunting of Lion."
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016

  4. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

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    Ok so I haven't finished watching this due to time constraints but I will. So far, I've made it up through the first Impala that has been shot and I don't see anything other than a group of friends hunting in RSA. I will finish it and post further but.... Looks like just a good time hunting so far??????????
     

  5. Christina Nyczepir

    Christina Nyczepir AH Enthusiast

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    Read my comment above your's. It may change things for you.
     

  6. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

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    Further the script you add in the last post seems aweful bias. I'd say it sounds by the way it's written as nothing more than anti's trying to stir outrage more than the truth of what was happening. More of the SA captive bred lion nonsense.
     

  7. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

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    I will finish the video when I can and give a better opinion. For what it's worth, I hunted lion in SA and can assure you the lions are perfectly capable of defending themselves. Also, the problem with single sided articles like that is well, one only gets the opposing side. Later on in the film if there are obvious immoral and unethical practices then I will most certainly eat crow. But I put zero stock in someone's claim that something was conducted illegally on the authors word ( not you, who ever wrote the outrage article) until all facts are available to view.
    Keep in mind, if some anti media outlet got a hold of films of you hunting and made up a bunch of bogus claims which side of the fence would you sit on then?
     
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  8. Christina Nyczepir

    Christina Nyczepir AH Enthusiast

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    From what I understand, it was their camera man that reported them.

    "Published on Sep 10, 2016
    Remember Bob Vitro & Stormberg Elangeni Hunt from Carte Blanche a few months back???

    The guy hired to film the hunt comes clean & I have no doubt a HUGE weight has been lifted off his shoulders!!!! Can you imagined being sickened with something so much & having to carry it around with you!!"
     

  9. Christina Nyczepir

    Christina Nyczepir AH Enthusiast

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    "Hunting captive bred lions within 96 hours of their release is illegal."
     

  10. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

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    I'm well aware of the laws surrounding SA lion hunts, I have done it. I had to read all laws pertaining to it and had an hour of lecture regarding those laws before the hunt was done.
    The camera man may well enough have reported them and maybe it was illegal in which case I certainly am opposed to but.... I'm not going to get out the rope and pitch forks on half information and an obvious bias article.
    What was the end result, where charges filed? Was it investigated, if not I find it unlikely as SA strictly regulated this stuff. How did the author get his info and what independent sources did he/she use?
    I can take a you tube video as can anyone else and make up some bogus story about how illegally something was done and that so in so reported it etc.... That doesn't make it the truth.
    To my knowledge that particular outfitter has been around for quite some time, correct me if I'm wrong please, and to conduct 10 illegal lion hunts would do a lot more that get bad PR and loose his company. It would be an international event and those responsible would most assuredly spend time in prison.
    I admire your dedication to preserving that thing we all love but I'm just saying before I jump on the band wagon to crucify someone and give ammunition to those against us and that don't know any better, I damn sure want to make sure I'm dealing with proven articulable facts.
     
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  11. charleslabounty

    charleslabounty AH Veteran

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    Ok then of this is correct, I do have a problem with their hunt. It changes the whole context of the video:
    "8 CAPTIVE BRED female lions were released onto the farm De Klerk Safaris farm Wilzenau, situated in the infamous LION ALLEY in the North-West Province, South Africa. They were all hunted over the next 4 days. 2 CAPTIVE BRED male lions were released on day for of the hunt and hunted on day 5 and day 9. IMMORAL, UNETHICAL and ILLEGAL."
     

  12. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

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    Agree 1000% but, I don't know this to be fact. This whole deal sounds like nothing more than a left wing attempt at a shot. Further when the validity of the claim is called into question and the response is
    I have a problem with it. Still nothing more than "from what I understand" and a left wing leaning article.
    If this was done illegally than I would sure hope those responsible are crucified but..... Other than one opinion and a bias article there are no facts. Also there is a film if a bunch of guys having a good time and that's it.
    I saw something the other day I found quite funny that applies here I think
    " you can't believe everything you read on the Internet"-------- Abraham Lincoln 1864
     
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  13. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    That's always been one of my favorite all time Lincoln quotes. I had it up on my wall as a kid.

    Agree with Erik though. Just because a camera man allegedly said something that allegedly happened and was reported on Carte Blanche... the antis don't even need to jump to conclusions if we do it for them.

    I saw something on CNN the other day, front page. A Democrat who had been around Bush Senior said that Bush had told them he was voting for Clinton. CNN ran it as the gospel. :rolleyes:

    Now I also agree that illegal or unethical hunts need to be stopped. I just have no idea if this is one of them. Besides, Stromberg is a PHASA member and PHASA members don't hunt lions anymore, so Im sure the video is old. ;)
     
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  14. Christina Nyczepir

    Christina Nyczepir AH Enthusiast

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    Gizmo.....watch the shorter of the two videos. I fully realize there are benefits to hunting captive bred lions in conservation. While it is not a way I would choose to hunt a lion, I have no issue if others choose to do so. But I have a royal issue with this hunt. Before you comment, I suggest you watch the videos.
     
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  15. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    @gizmo, I have only watched a portion of the video. Enough to see two of the lionesses taken. I may be wrong, but the first beer is on me in Dallas if you find those two kills to be similar to what you experienced. I've not watched the video entirely as I've not had the time, but something seems off with this "hunt."
     

  16. Christina Nyczepir

    Christina Nyczepir AH Enthusiast

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    Phil....watch the shorter one I posted above. The camera man goes into full detail.
     

  17. Scott Slough

    Scott Slough AH Fanatic

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    10 lions ... 5 days ... one camera man ... all 10 on film ... hard to call this hunting!
     
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  18. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    I did watch the shorter of the 2 videos. Ironically I was correct even though i was being sarcastic above. The hunt took place in 2012. Just some perspective as to the time frame.
     
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  19. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

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    I really do need to finish watching before I go further. But.... I get pretty testy when things like this come up and in the vast majority of the situations it comes out in the end that nothing actually happened. Sadly in most circumstances when the truth comes out and nothing was wrong we still get egg on our face because the fact is was a half truth or whole lie is never noticed.
     
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  20. K-man

    K-man AH Elite

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    The cameraman just "reported" this to clear his conscience? How about stopping when you know it's wrong, walking away, reporting it then? I am sure he got paid for his services. I give him or her no quarter by "reporting" it later and not standing up when it counts. Coward
     

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