A-Frame or Scirocco for mixed bag

[Pheroze]

Help me stop over thinkng this please!

My 308 Norma shoots A-Frames at 2860 fps to a 2" group at 200 yards. It shoots Scirocco at about 2920 fps to under an inch at 200 yards. The fall hunt could include moose or deer, so I have to benprepared to either.

To add to the consideration, it is a heavily wooded area so not letting the animal wobble off too far is important.

Should I go for maximum penetration with the A-Frames? Or would the Scirocco be a better choice with the big energy dump and wide expansion?

 

[C.W. Richter]

That's a toughy!! 'Have only used A-Frames for DG (and the occasional PG encountered while doing so.) They shoot 1-hole groups in my .416. The sciroccos I've used extensively on deer, quite successfully, at all ranges. What is the max range you'll be shooting? What bullet weights are you talking about?? If heavy-for-caliber, high SD, either will penetrate (the moose) quite well. I'd prefer the S for longer shots at deer, but the A for moose. If the distance isn't too far on either, stick with the A. Have you messed around with seating depth?? Any handload that shoots 2" groups gets tossed. That sounds more like factory ammo...

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

The OP states 2 inch at 200 yards, which is good and good enough.

I keep things pretty simple: Just shoot everything with Swift A-Frames.

 

[Ridgewalker]

JMO, but I’d use A-frames if moose is a possibility. You’ll need a stout penetrating bullet especially if a not so perfect angle shot has to be taken.

 

[meigsbucks]

You stated that it is a heavily wooded area. The BC advantage of the Sciracco is a moot point. Go with the A-Frame. Even if a 300 yd shot presents itself, at ~2900fps trajectory isn’t an issue.

 

[curtism1234]

Unless you are in Alaska or northern Canada, I would personally go with the Scirocco. Moose are big animals but are relatively easy to kill - lots fall to the 30-30 and 6.5mm swede.

 

[Pheroze]

180l

That's a toughy!! 'Have only used A-Frames for DG (and the occasional PG encountered while doing so.) They shoot 1-hole groups in my .416. The sciroccos I've used extensively on deer, quite successfully, at all ranges. What is the max range you'll be shooting? What bullet weights are you talking about?? If heavy-for-caliber, high SD, either will penetrate (the moose) quite well. I'd prefer the S for longer shots at deer, but the A for moose. If the distance isn't too far on either, stick with the A. Have you messed around with seating depth?? Any handload that shoots 2" groups gets tossed. That sounds more like factory ammo...

Both are 180gr. Distances could be very short to a long shot over a cut. I suspect under 200 yards, but some of those cuts are huge. Then again, it could even be much shorter.....

 

[Pheroze]

Unless you are in Alaska or northern Canada, I would personally go with the Scirocco. Moose are big animals but are relatively easy to kill - lots fall to the 30-30 and 6.5mm swede.

Northern Ontario, around Thunder Bay area. Will the large expansion of the Scirocco be a blessing on a big moose (more damage), or a problem?

 

[Pheroze]

You stated that it is a heavily wooded area. The BC advantage of the Sciracco is a moot point. Go with the A-Frame. Even if a 300 yd shot presents itself, at ~2900fps trajectory isn’t an issue.

I agree, it was their expansion inhibiting penetration on less than ideal shots that I was fussing over.

 

[Pheroze]

JMO, but I’d use A-frames if moose is a possibility. You’ll need a stout penetrating bullet especially if a not so perfect angle shot has to be taken.

Will a delayed kill on a doe be the result? Are they too tough for her? Hard tracking is the consternation in that area?

 

[curtism1234]

Northern Ontario, around Thunder Bay area. Will the large expansion of the Scirocco be a blessing on a big moose (more damage), or a problem?

Certainly no more of a problem than the cheap corelokt bullets the locals use. The scirocco, I believe, is slightly tougher than an accubond. You may not get complete penatration but it should hold together well. Accuracy wise, they can be finicky though.

If you want 2 holes, the Aframes are more likely to do it. I dont think it's a wrong choice. I just don't think moose are that tough to warrant the Aframes, per say.

 

[Rum Runner]

I'm an A-Frame fan, but for moose I'd personally go with the Sirocco II. A really good bullet with better expansion.

 

[WAB]

I hunted that country for moose and deer when I was at Lakehead university. I would definitely use the A-Frame. It will do much better on a quartering shot on moose, particularly if you have to go through the shoulder. The moose I took were not hanging around an offering ideal shot opportunities. The bush is so thick that two steps and you will never see them again. You have to be prepared to punch into the boiler house quickly and from all angles. Penetration, penetration, penetration! And don’t be fooled, the exit would on a moose with that AFrame will be plenty big enough and pass a lot of blood.

 

[BeeMaa]

308NORMA is quite the .30 caliber magnum.
Driving 200 grain bullets nearly 3000fps.
As such, you need a truly tough bullet.

If you have a quartering shot on a Moose...SAF.
Want to penetrate the shoulder...SAF.
Need a backup shot at a Moose running away...SAF.
Otherwise the Sirocco on lung shots.

If I was shooting MOA with SAF's...
I prefer two holes bleeding over just one.
Keep it simple and only take one bullet/load combo.
Whichever one you decide will be best for you.

 

[Pheroze]

I certainly appreciate everyone weighing in on my "dilemma". Hopefully I can repay you all with a report of a shot opportunity and retrieval!

 

[Ridgewalker]

Will a delayed kill on a doe be the result? Are they too tough for her? Hard tracking is the consternation in that area?

You’re kind of in a catch 22. A-frame out of a 300 WM works fine on mulies and elk, so I just thought it would work in your case. That said, I’ve also used 165 Sierra, Hornady, Remington Core-Lokt, and Barnes on elk and mule deer. They all worked. Only 1 elk went more than 100 yards. Also used the same out of a 30-06. The A-frame and Barnes are the only ones that completely went through.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’m on the A frame team.

 

[Mekaniks]

I am an A Frame fan, but I believe the Siroccos are good bullets also. At the end of the day it really probably doesn't make any difference to the dead critter either.....

 

[machinistbutler]

Took a little buck with an a frame a week or so ago, the deer just tipped over, kicked a few times and that was it. The a frame entered the whitetail in the back and exited out it's chest. Meat damage was minimal. Range was 200 yards and a bit, 500 grain 458 Lott. Was my first time using an a frame on an animal and looking forward to using them again!

 

[machinistbutler]

Took out some ribs along the back bone then made its way through the gut, some arteries off the heart then a rib or two when it exited out the front. Exit hole is visible if you enlarge pic a bit. I think I would have to shoot something awful big to recover one of those 500 grain a frames.