A 1916 Erfurt Small Ring project

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by Von Gruff, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    It seems like there may well be a new project in the offing. There has been a trade agreed where I send a Mk 1 Long Lee Enfield action to a feller and he will send me a 1916 Kar 98 small ring Mauser action.

    Erfurt%201_zpsqqymnk37.png
    Being a small ring it can be made into a nice light hill rifle and I have decided that a 7x57 in a blind mag stock designed for open sights will be the way to go with this one even though I will possibly look at a QD scope as well. Up to this point I have sort of adapted my stock pattern to lower the comb at the nose to get down for the aperture sights but with the heel at the same drop it means a slightly unconventional head position on the stock.
    It may well be a few weeks before the action arrives but I thought to get the stock design sorted now and thought that I might do a trial one first to get the blind mag area understood before I attack a nice piece of walnut.
    To that end I drew out the plan and cut both a pattern and a framed pattern then a trial stock from a piece of Rimu and thought that it may be of interest to look at how to draw out the pattern.
    Photo2521_zpscfrldrqi.jpg
     
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  2. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I used a piece of thin board that is 8 1/2 in deep for the framed pattern so I could get all my measurements noted down.
    Photo2523_zpsg3ioe12q.jpg
    I started by marking a line the width of my long steel rule (1 1/8) parallel to the top so that when I cut out the interior there is enough strength left outside it to hold it all together. This line is the stock top line and all measurements noted are down from this line. Point A is marked in along this top line and to find point A --- I made my stock to have a 13 3/8 L O P so point A is 14 1/2 in from the butt end of the board. Adjust as necessary for your own desired L O P.

    I will deal with the forestock first.

    From point A, square a line down to the bottom of the board as this is the face of the trigger and where all the measurements go from. From point A mark down the line 2 3/16 as this is the depth of the stock at this point. Measure toward the forend tip 15 1/2 inches and square a line down with a point marked in an 1 1/4 down from the top line. You can now draw a line from this point back through the first point measured down from point A to give you the forestock length and shape. Photo2526_zpslmw02xjq.jpg
     
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  3. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Photo2525_zpsnygqznim.jpg
    For the butt end I start with the grip curve so to get there I measure back toward the butt from point A 3 7/8 then square down from there. Measure down that line 4 1/4 and mark the spot. ( call it B) Next comes the grip curve and this calls for a bit of try and adjust. Set you calipers for 4 1/8 as this is the radius for the curve and it requires the curve to go through the point B and back into the line we drew back from the forend tip to intersect where the center of of the trigger curve will be directly down from point A. Then you can use your square and mark in the grip cap line back toward the heel. My intersection point is 14 7/8 back along the top line from point A. Mark 1 3/4 for the grip cap length.
    Next comes the comb nose and I mark 4 1/2 back from point A and go down 3/4. This is where the comb nose starts to curve down toward the top of the wrist. Mark back from point A along the top line 13 5/8 and down 1 3/4 to the heel and now you can draw in the comb line. For myself I marked down with a 4 degree negative pitch and drew in the curve for the checkered steel butt plate. If you need a longer L O P I would stoll draw in the drop a heel at the 13 5/8 mark and continue the comb line till you reached your desired L O P.
    I am going to grind back the checkered steel butt plate to give me a length of 4 7/8 so from that point I can draw in the toe line of the butt from the tip of the butt plate to the 1 3/4 mark on the grip cap line.
    It will be noted that this line (continued) is above the grip curve by 3/16 - 1/4 but this all helps to lighten the appearance of the stock
     
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  4. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    You will notice that while I have used more drop at heel than is customary with todays stocks it is nowhere as much as the general line of stocks were given when open sighted rifles were the norm. . Having done a number of the Lee Speed styled rifles I have discovered that I quite like the stance they encourage but do like slightly more height at the comb nose for better face support (closer to mid cheek rather than just above the jaw that they offer) while the drop at heel is very comfortable. I have found that I tend to shoot a little more toward the standing straight style rather than the leaning forward that a friend does which is the reason for the negative pitch on the butt for my rifles as opposed to the positive pitch I use for his.
    The grip curve radius is very comfortable for standing shooting with a high elbow (at 90 *)where my scope sighted rifles have a slightly tighter curve which is better for an elbow down (by about 15-20*) which is generally the style used more in a rested rifle shot.
     

  5. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Photo2789_zpskgoj7xay.jpg I made a start on the trial blind mag stock today. I am going to use a altered military trigger where the finger piece is adjusted to the rear by about a 1/4 to bring it closer to the rear of the trigger bow so I took the one off my other 7x57 so I could get the placement of the action on the blank.
    Center of the trigger face is the datum point so measuring back to the rear stock screw centre is the first move

    Then the front stock screw can be marked in
    Photo2790_zpsbp35wx2p.jpg
    From these two points the trigger clearance slot can be done and the action sat into the blank on the headless screws to mark in the other data points
    Photo2791_zpsfxgvr3uy.jpg
    And a while later it is starting to settle into the wood.
    Photo2792_zpsoqaxxz1e.jpg
     
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  6. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Have the action settled into the wood. I had the stock for my DWM set on the bench as a visual guide and for measurement checks.
    Photo2802_zpsuyswo6he.jpg Photo2803_zpsf7m7guxt.jpg
    I made a start on the jig to allow the use of the router to do the blind mag. I cut a block to fin into the recoil lug and fixed a slow wedge shaped piece to it so the top of the guide was parallel to the bottom of the stock.
    Careful measuring of the internal mag dimensions and allowing for the guide collar on the router base required a 1/2 inch over the required size so I should get the correct finished size. I will try it tomorrow on a scrap piece first then one the practice stock. Going to be an interesting trial.
     
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  7. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    have been able to get the practice inlet done after a couple of alterations to the jig and it holds four down and feeds flawlessly. Then the barrel turned up that had been part of the trade for the action. It was a stepped barrel that I had intended to have the steps machined off but it turned out to be a large ring barrel so wouldnt fit the small ring action without turning the thread off and rethreading for the small ring. As it was just 20 1/4 in long, this coupled with the machining needed for the step removal and the rethreading put it out of contention for use so in thinkingnthrough the possibilities I got onto one of the short chambered 6.5x55 barrels from Brownells which I will have shortened a little and rechambered for the 6.5x57.
    I got a set of Hornady New Dimension dies in 6.5x57 from Ebay for under US$58 so things are moving in the right direction again.
    A friend has been exceptionally generous and sent me a lovely blank to build this one on

    Erfurt%20stock%20from%20Frank_zpscs6hopqp.png Erfurt%20stock%20from%20Frank__zpshdiimnwg.png
     
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  8. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    This is the trial inlet on the practice stock. Initially I made the whole well the same depth but then put a fillet in and reset the jig so I could cut the spring end recess. Then I found that I needed the little fillet up the back of the well so it would engage in the rear of the action the same way as the steel tag does on the standard bottom metal. On the good stock I have a little piece of buffalo horn that I will use for this. I make no apologies for the rather rough look to the wood but the rimu is not a suitable stockwood as it has a fiberous texture and tears a little rather than clean cutting like walnut. It was getting the mag well sorted that was important rather than a fanvy finish.

    Photo2819_zpsw6umj0cd.jpg
     
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  9. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I made a sighting decision over night (well between 2.30am and 5.30am it became clear) and will use a universal front ramp from NECG
    http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/item_info.asp?Brand_id=4237&ST=Basic Front Ramp - Rounded#.VujgSuRJnIU
    with the high sourdough blade that I can regulate to suit. http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/item_info.asp?Brand_id=4214&ST=Sourdough Sight for Masterpiece & Classic Banded Ramp#.VujgneRJnIU

    I will not use a barrel mounted rear sight but will fit the Talley low bases http://www.talleymanufacturing.com/...user/Steel-Base-for-98-Mauser-Small-Ring.aspx
    with the Talley aperture sight http://www.talleymanufacturing.com/Products/Scope-Ring-Bases-Peep-Sight/Peep-Sight.aspx
    Initial shooting will all be done with the aperture sight but a set of QD rings will be in its future with a Leupold M8 6 power fixed scope.
     

  10. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    This superb piece of wood turned up this morning and I couldn't wait to get it to the shed and plane off one side to straighten and flatten it then run it through the thicknesser to see what was hiding under the rough sawn surface.
    I was more than plesantly surprised to see the wonderfull colours emergs with the grain structure being swirls and fiddleback with a marblecake apearance. It is the most even on both side of any blank I have seen and would easily sit amongst exibition grade blanks in any walnut supplier.
    A very big thank you to Frank for this one.

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     

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  11. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    As most who undertake these sort of builds will know there is a WHOLE LOT OF PIC GATHERING that goes on with the end result being that many are deleted as the ideas refine themselves and the decision gets made as to the finished apearance that I want to aim for is made. First and formost I would like to to look similar to Terry's rifle and even though it is a CZ Mini Mauser in 223 I think the style will translate over to my Erfurt actioned 6.5x57. This is the overall look I am going for with buffalo horn tip and grip cap, the shadowline pancake cheekpiece off a 3/16 cast to the butt with an aditional 1/8 in cant to the butt plate which will be a checkered steel curved plate.
    [​IMG]
    The bolt release will be shelved but I am not 100% decided on the lowered "window" on that part of the stock so any feedback on that would be welcome
    [​IMG]
    This is the trigger guard style and again this it thanks to Frank who is busy making it for me and will come over soon with some of the other bits and pieces I have a need of.
    [​IMG]
    It will not have the engraving but with the long tail I can inlet it into the underside of the grip like this one here
    [​IMG]
    With this reshaping of the tang the grip will be able to slim up over the top and add to the svelte feel I am looking for.
    [​IMG]
    Have got a Tally bolt handle coming and it will be welded on so that there will not need to be a scollop ground out for a low scope rings something like this one here.
    [​IMG]

    So with my flag nailed to the mast and my colours showing I will have to now try and get as close to this ideal as I can manage.
     

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  12. stug

    stug AH Fanatic

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    It will be stunning when you have got it all done.
     

  13. TallGrassHunter

    TallGrassHunter AH Veteran

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    Another exceptional project. Very nice. Bet you can't wait to shoot it.
     

  14. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I have already shot it inumerable times during the sleepless nights that have gone into its planning
    :W Sharp Shooter:

    The barrel, Talley bolt handle, bases, and aperture sight along with the ranp front sight and trigger guard are still nearly a month away so this will probably not burn powder till our winter is done ( probably not untill at least august)
     

  15. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Made a start on the action inlet today. I didn't profile the top of the butt section so I would have a flat surface to run the hand router on. That gets done after the primary inlet is done down to the action flat
    The underside is cut paralell to the top for the drilling of holes etc. As mentioned in drawing up the stock pattern the face of the trigger is marked in first (from the pattern) and the screw holes can be plotted from there. The grain has a lot of twists and turns so the inet is time for real concentration with grain ends going in all sorts of directions.
    [​IMG]
    When the action flat depth has been reached the butt portion is run through the bandsaw to make the inlet of the tang easier.
    Have still got nearly an 1/8 in to go but it is getting there and will do for today.
    [​IMG]
     

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  16. Witold Krzyżanowski

    Witold Krzyżanowski AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I like it Von Gruff. This will be a beautiful rifle.
    Witold
     
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  17. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    When do you expect to complete this project?
     

  18. DM Shooting

    DM Shooting AH Veteran

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    Looking a great project watching with interest.
     

  19. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I dont expect the barrel and other parts for at least 3 weeks and then there is getting the chambering etc done at the Gunsmith which could take a while as well so may not burn powder in this one for a few months yet. I will have to tap into some paitence.
     

  20. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    Patience the virtue of a sportsman!
     

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