9.3x64/375 H&H and Camels

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by bruce moulds, Sep 15, 2018.

  1. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Veteran

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    a recent camel cull was an interesting comparison of these two rounds.
    the 9.3 was running 300 gn swift aframes, and the man from swift had told me that there would be no difference between them and the 286 gn version.
    the 375 was using 270 gn woodleigh pp.
    while both shooting camels in a mob, there was no noticeable difference .
    both rifles were producing most shots as 1 shot kills, dead before they hit the ground.
    other shots had no runs after being hit, and dead very soon after.
    this was a definite step up from previous hunting with a 7mm stw and barnes bullets.
    the 7 required much more precise bullet placement, and sometimes produced walking wounded.
    the 7 was easier to hit with ay longer ranges, but was less deadly, giving it no more effective range than the bigger guns.
    both bullets were FAR more effective than nosler partitions, being reliable with anything like a reasonable shot placement from any angle.
    the difference between the swift and the woodleigh only beame apparrent when doing experimental shots on dead bodies.
    a 375 woodleigh pp shot into the back of a head at about 10 yards did not exit.
    here is a bullet not suited to dangerous game, where the swift is impervious to that problem.
    the sporting shooters assn of aust has been involved in camel culling in aust., and they tend to use cartridges like 270 and 30/06.
    these rounds just scratch camels down, particularly with the budget priced bullets they tend to use.
    personal opinion is that this attitude comes from mental laziness and miserly thinking, and is cruel.
    just because you are destroying vermin does not mean that they need to suffer any nore than necessary.
    of course you can easily kill a camel with a shot just behind the shoulder with a 308, but when you have to kill 20 in a mob you have no time to wait for ideal presentation.
    both rifles produced texas heart shots, and the little guns cannot do that.
    our shots were from 100 to 300 yards, and bullet performance was equally effective in those distances.
    they also killes equally as well large bulls and young females of yearling age quartering and side on.
    i will not bore you by quoting robert ruark.
    bruce.
     
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  2. stug

    stug AH Fanatic

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    Culling camels would be pretty exciting. I am surprised the 375 pp did not exit on a head shot.
     
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  3. 1dirthawker

    1dirthawker AH Enthusiast

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    bruce,

    an interesting subject, on a large animal that most folks will not have near the trigger time. sounds like both worked pretty similarly.
     
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  4. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    Bruce, I am not surprised by your findings about the 270 grain Woodleigh PPSN being less than desirable. It is a boar / kudu bullet, in my opinion.

    Sounds like a great adventure in what must’ve been magnificent desert country.
     

  5. Dr Ray

    Dr Ray AH Elite

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    Regarding my article on Baz’s buffalo hunt the Woodleigh Bullets (570 grain) in 500 Nitro Express did not exit either.
    Fantastic Bullets and you have confirmed.
     

  6. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Veteran

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    i would not say woodleighs are less than desirable, but rather unsuitable for things that come toward you getting closer.
    that type of bullet and situation is where you need the soft and the solid.
    far better just use the swift in my opinion.
    at more normal ranges, the woodleigh pp is ok.
    yes the 375 and the x64 were indistinguishable, the point being that they are really in the same class.
    just do not use projectiles meant for the x62 in the x64, or disappointmen will be assured.
    that includes the tug bullet.
    the nosler partition in in no way in the class of the swift as a killer or in predictable reliability.
    the desert is a wonderful place to be, and there is a lot of it between camels.
    trigger time is an issue.
    when culling you have to keep shooting, unlike trophy shooting, yet still be sure of follow through.
    this type of shooting is not pick a poiunt to shoot at, but pick a zone and be happy to get the bullet in it.
    the rifle must have sufficient power to kill emphatically with a hit in the zone.
    bullets do not have to exit to be o.k.
    but they do have to kill.
    my swifts were on test shots on dead animals exiting on side on chest shots, but not side on or quartering shoulder shots.
    i could have squeezed another 100fps aout of them, but chose to reduce recoil a little, and guarantee ejection.
    the swifts might have penetrated a little more, and woodleighs a little less under this circumstance.
    my friend nailed it when he said our main issue was the difficulty of placing bullets compared to penetration.
    many shots required offhand technique, and the rest kneeling when possible.
    bruce.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
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  7. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    I think I gave the wrong impression. Woodleigh bullets are very desirable, I’m a big fan and have used a wide variety of them in a range of cartridges and game. I would merrily shoot camels and buffalo all day long with Woodleigh 300 grain softs - just not the 270 grain PPSNs, which are AWESOME but designed for smaller game.
     

  8. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    Which desert were you in, by the way, Bruce? I sorely miss my old adventures in the Simpson and Gibson.
     

  9. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    Amen to “bullets don’t have to exit to be okay”. In my experience, it is rare to have a soft point bullet exit a buffalo, and rare to have a solid not exit - side-on shots. That offside skin is like a bungy cord.
     
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  10. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Veteran

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    ben,
    it was near the simpson.
    you are right about offside skin stopping bullets.
    i have seen high speed still photos of how far out it can go with a bulet and not be perforated.
    300 gn sierras in 375 h&h mushroom quite big, and will penetrate donkeys on raking shots until they reach far side skin, where they lodge as big lumps, rarely breaking through.
    if i were going after buff with a 375 it would be with swift 300 grainers.
    they are just a better bullet than the woodleigh, so when you are stretching a calibre it just gives that bit more.
    bruce.
     
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  11. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    Actually, you’ve reminded me that truth be told I never did use the regular Woodleigh 300 grain softs; instead, I used their 300 grain Heavy Duty softs which were marvellous and accounted for many fine bulls.
     

  12. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Veteran

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    ben,
    thanks for the reminder of the heavy duty version.
    will tell my friend with the 375.
    i think i will still stick to swift in the 9.3.
    comparing the 9.3 to the 375 might be like comparing the 270 to the 280.
    both good, but the littler one needs better bullets to equal the bigger one.
    i have used 140 gn swift and 140 gn woodleigh pp in the 280 rem on feral goat culling, and the swifts were clearly better killers there on light game for calibre, and also better on donkeys, heavy game for calibre.
    bruce.
     
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