9.3x62mm vs. .375 H&H Mag

Pardon me but this looks like calibre creep in the opposite direction. I have read countless posts and been told countless times that a 375H&H is preferred by PH's over a 400_ cal as shooters cannot handle the recoil of a 400+ calibre.
Do PH now start recommending that people bring a 9.3X62 or 35 Whelen if they cant handle the recoil of a 375H&H/Ruger.
So which is it????
Not getting emotional just want some rational though by all.

Now for those who cant handle the 375 and shoot badly did you or any of your mates see if those same people could shoot with a 9.3 or a 308 or a 243? Genuine question, because if you did not how do you know they are just shit shots?
With enough practice, nearly anyone can learn to shoot a 375H&H. The problem is those learning how to can't START with a 375H&H, they need to have shot all the lower calibers like 22lr, 270WIN, 30-06, 300WM...etc before stepping up. Working up in caliber slowly with lots of dry fire practice will instill the proper technique and habits so that when they move to a mid-bore like the 375H&H...they are properly prepared.

Also, as the caliber goes up, gun fit becomes more important and a lot of hunters only realize this too late.

I can't stand those videos of a young woman, who has never shot before, being given a 12 bore with a 3.5" turkey load.

There are thousands of ways to develop a flinch or become a "shit shot". Only a few proper ways to prevent it and still move up in caliber.
 
With enough practice, nearly anyone can learn to shoot a 375H&H. The problem is those learning how to can't START with a 375H&H, they need to have shot all the lower calibers like 22lr, 270WIN, 30-06, 300WM...etc before stepping up. Working up in caliber slowly with lots of dry fire practice will instill the proper technique and habits so that when they move to a mid-bore like the 375H&H...they are properly prepared.

Also, as the caliber goes up, gun fit becomes more important and a lot of hunters only realize this too late.

I can't stand those videos of a young woman, who has never shot before, being given a 12 bore with a 3.5" turkey load.

There are thousands of ways to develop a flinch or become a "shit shot". Only a few proper ways to prevent it and still move up in caliber.
I'd agree that a .375 is not a starting point to some degree. For the most part the rifles are too heavy for many to be accurate with at first. If however someone can squeeze off a 12 gauge with buckshot or turkey shot and hit what they are aiming at, there is very little difference in the .375 in my opinion. Where the .375 is very different from other rifles is in power and conservation of the same power when paired with high BC bullets. I have had some very interesting deflections when using a .375 as opposed to a .30-06 or a .223. One should realize that that bullet is going to keep on going once it has struck the ground and may go on for several hundred yards beyond ones target. It took me a second to catch on to this resilience and I definitely think about it every time I line up a shot. It's quite different and special from the bigger boomers as well in this respect. Mark and Sam after work did a nice long range shooting segment on the .375 H&H.
 
I have both and both will do the same job. I can tell you that a 9.3x62 typically gets a lot more eyeballs in camp. Has a certain respect amongst farm owners. Lower recoil and great penetration.

We usually get worried when hunters show up with a 375 H&H because it’s the caliber that wounds the most animals. People just aren’t comfortable shooting it. Too big for most plains game I’d say. But perfect for Eland and larger.
Get worried when hunters show up with a .375.
It's the caliber that wounds the most animals.

People aren't comfortable shooting it.

I submitt it's the people not the cartridge itself, that wounds most game.
Helping people check the zero on their rifle before the hunt might disclose this & maybe an easier shooting rifle be offered?
Just a thought!
 
Get worried when hunters show up with a .375.
It's the caliber that wounds the most animals.

People aren't comfortable shooting it.

I submitt it's the people not the cartridge itself, that wounds most game.
Helping people check the zero on their rifle before the hunt might disclose this & maybe an easier shooting rifle be offered?
Just a thought!
Interesting thought being the caliber that wounds the most animals. How are you coming up with this data point that the .375 is so unshootable?

Forgive me for my ignorance, but I find the most challenging part of shooting some of the larger rifles is due to the increased weight that most folks struggle to steady. Given that so many people are now using stick or rests in the field, the accuracy of the shots must be improved. Offhand shooting is something that so very few actually do anymore given the amount of money involved in the hunt and the limited amount of time available. I haven't really seen the recoil of the .375 to be particularly formidable for anyone that can handle a 12 gauge shotgun with buckshot, slug or heavy charges of fine shot.
 
The .375 wounds more than the 416 rigby/remington/ruger? Than the .458?

I’d think if people were atrocious shots with the .375 they would be in the larger calibers as well.

Or do you mean that the hunters who bring .400+ caliber rounds are more used to large bores, thus better with them. Whereas most .375 users are getting a larger caliber than their normal for the first time?
 
After having hunted many years with a .375, I just completed my first trip with the 9.3x62 and I must say I am very happy with its performance. I noticed very minimal recoil for a "larger" caliber, even when shooting it on paper at the bench. In the field it knocked down this fine Livingstone Eland standing full frontal at 200 yards, with one shot of Federal premium 286 gr Barnes triple shock...about 10 seconds of dirt dancing and it was all over. I will be bringing this gun back overseas as it seems like a great "do-all" caliber for a lot of larger game. I imagine one could even adequately hunt smaller game when using solids, so as to avoid excessive damage and repair for the taxidermist. In simple terms, I'm sold on it!
IMG_9351.jpg
 
The .375 wounds more than the 416 rigby/remington/ruger? Than the .458?

I’d think if people were atrocious shots with the .375 they would be in the larger calibers as well.

Or do you mean that the hunters who bring .400+ caliber rounds are more used to large bores, thus better with them. Whereas most .375 users are getting a larger caliber than their normal for the first time?
Speaking only from my perspective here.
The first center fire rifle cartridge I fired was a 7-08.

That had minimal recoil. Then I shot a .308 Winchester and for work I shot a lot of .223/5.56. Got good with the .223 with some practice. Got decent with the other cartridges too with practice. Then up to the 30-06, .300WM, .338WM, 25-06, 45-70, and finally the .375 Ruger.

I remember being worried about the recoil of a .300WM until I shot one. I still have that trepidation with the larger Weatherby cartridges so I avoid them. The point to this rambling diatribe is that often I’d shoot a cartridge, found its recoil wasn’t as bad as I imagined, then I’d go on to practicing and shooting that cartridge. I know when I’m going to flinch and that’s when I go back to the basic fundamentals. I concentrate on my breathing, body position, and a slow, steady, even rearward press on the trigger.

Often we build things up in our mind to where we think it’s a ferocious beast the size of a house when in reality it’s like a lap dog that just wants to kiss you. I’ve found that when I fear a cartridge, after I fire the first shot, I realize it really isn’t that bad. That and realizing that others have shot the cartridge too helps.

Given that hunting has become somewhat costly, especially if you venture from your home territory, I think a lot of people select the cartridge before they are capable. For example, Joe shoots a lever action pistol caliber carbine at home for deer. He then plans a hunt overseas and goes to the store and buys what the clerk advises him. Let’s say a .375 of some sort.

Joe proceeds to the range with said rifle and sets up at the bench. Snuggles in and proceeds to fire off one round. OUCH!!! DANG!!! OMG!!!! So then he goes to the gunsmith to have him boresight the rifle and calls it good telling himself he won’t feel the recoil when he’s hunting but his body remembers and takes subconscious protective action. The dreaded flinch. Or he buys a lead sled to sight in his rifle and proceeds to go hunting.

As we all know changes in body position equals a change in your point of impact relative to your zero however you zero your rifle. I zero my rifle how I expect to shoot it.

Being that Joe bought a .375 of some flavor because the gun store clerk told him that’s what he needed for Africa and he zeroed it as described above it’s no wonder that the .375 is responsible for wounding the most game.

I like to shoot what I’m going to hunt with, a lot, but while I’m letting that rifle cool between sessions, I shoot lesser recoiling cartridges to avoid becoming tired and concentrate on the fundamentals.

Also, how many of those guys and gals like Joe spend time daily dry firing and getting behind their rifle? I do a lot of that when I’m practicing. It helps with instilling confidence, getting on your sights quickly, and in helping you become familiar with YOUR rifle to where it becomes a part of you.

My $0.02
 
Have a 375 Ruger in Mossberg Patriot. similar ballistics, but the thing is too light for the heavier loads. Scoped about 7 lbs even. So 300 grain at 2600 hurts. The rifle is a joy to carry and is the synthetic stock so is used is heavy weather and rough bushwhacking and as the deer camp backup gun incase someone damages theirs. thankfully I reload, so a lighter bullet makes all the difference. Besides it would be kinda silly to shoot $100 a box ammo in a $300 gun. Cast bullets are a lot of fun. Big heavy 280 grain at about 1800 fps still hits about the same spot at 100 yards as the jacketed load.
 
Have a 375 Ruger in Mossberg Patriot. similar ballistics, but the thing is too light for the heavier loads. Scoped about 7 lbs even. So 300 grain at 2600 hurts. The rifle is a joy to carry and is the synthetic stock so is used is heavy weather and rough bushwhacking and as the deer camp backup gun incase someone damages theirs. thankfully I reload, so a lighter bullet makes all the difference. Besides it would be kinda silly to shoot $100 a box ammo in a $300 gun. Cast bullets are a lot of fun. Big heavy 280 grain at about 1800 fps still hits about the same spot at 100 yards as the jacketed load.
My Rem700 in 375 weight is about the same weight but a delight to shoot even with 350 grain bullets. The elcheapo SPS stock absorbs a lot of the recoil force, I would have thought the same with the Patriot stock. Must be a harder plastic. The recoil pad on the Remis not bad.

Yes the price of ammo can be eye watering.
 
I agree Bob, been preaching that since about 1954, when I traded a saddle and my bike for a JP Sauer and sons 9,3x62, had to make ammo from milsurp brass, a poor practice but it got me by..

I load my 9.3x62 at 2500 fps with a 286 and my 375 at 2500 with a 300 gr bullet, both have worked for ions on all game shot including DG..I can load the 375 to another 100 fps and 14 grs of bullet, about the difference of a 22 LR advantage to the 375 more or less...I might add that the 375 performs better on DG game than it does with more velocity. I got that info from Doctari and tested it and he was right, and why not he is a veterinarian by trade.
 
I’ve found my best preforming load in both my 9,3x62’s is a 285/286 grain bullet at 2500to 2550 fps. It can be pushed faster but I don’t see the reason too. My .375 Ruger like a 300 gr bullet at 2400.
 
Likely 90% - 95% of hunters don't handload, so they don't have many options for easing themselves into the middle calibers.

The rifle manufactures build according to demand, so they offer up their middle calibers often in too-light rifle weights so that hunters who haven't done a push-up in 30 years can walk around all day carrying their loudenboomer.

How one goes about firing their .35, .36, .37 caliber rifle from the bench should be different from a lifetime of shooting .30 caliber and smaller. Size in the smaller calibers conceals many bad habits in bench shooting form.

I'm betting the first time a hunter with their new middle caliber rifle squeezes off a factory round from the bench, their first reaction is "damn! that hurts!"
 
Puddle I will add to what you have said. They also buy the cheapest rile without regard to how it fits them. This can also apply to the more expensive rile as well.

Proper Fit will do more to tame Felt recoil than weight will.
 
After having hunted many years with a .375, I just completed my first trip with the 9.3x62 and I must say I am very happy with its performance. I noticed very minimal recoil for a "larger" caliber, even when shooting it on paper at the bench. In the field it knocked down this fine Livingstone Eland standing full frontal at 200 yards, with one shot of Federal premium 286 gr Barnes triple shock...about 10 seconds of dirt dancing and it was all over. I will be bringing this gun back overseas as it seems like a great "do-all" caliber for a lot of larger game. I imagine one could even adequately hunt smaller game when using solids, so as to avoid excessive damage and repair for the taxidermist. In simple terms, I'm sold on it! View attachment 629944
My 9.3 performed like a champ last week on Cape Buffalo, zebra (the one in my avatar), and blue wildebeest. I had to put an anchor in the wildebeest, but 1 shot kills on zebra and the buff.

Zebra was probably 130 yards, buff about 30, wildebeest about 70 or 80.

My PH had a 375 for backup on the buff, the contrast in rifles was stark - not just barrel length, but profile as well.

I'm pushing 286 A Frames at 2475.
 
My 9.3 performed like a champ last week on Cape Buffalo, zebra (the one in my avatar), and blue wildebeest. I had to put an anchor in the wildebeest, but 1 shot kills on zebra and the buff.

Zebra was probably 130 yards, buff about 30, wildebeest about 70 or 80.

My PH had a 375 for backup on the buff, the contrast in rifles was stark - not just barrel length, but profile as well.

I'm pushing 286 A Frames at 2475.
Outstanding!!
 
@Rule 303 I agree. When I got my hands on one of the Lipsey's Hawkeye African in 9.3x62mm I noticed right off the stock was being used for multiple cartridges - same stock cut regardless of cartridge.

IMHO the stock comb is cut too low - can't get a solid cheek weld and still have the eyeball aligned with the crosshair inside a 20mm tube. In addition, the stock grip is too closed, forcing my trigger finger forward of the trigger guard. The stock grip needs opening up ala a David Miller stock. These stock fit issues create problems for properly handling recoil and follow-on shots.

It's not all bad. The Hawkeye action is excellent. Try as I might I could never get a FTF & FTE out of that action. And I think the stock fore-end shape is perfect.

So, I made a few modifications to correct some of the issues and now it's a joy to launch 300 grain A-Frames out of it from the field or from the bench.
 
Puddle, I have aRuger Hawkeye in35 Sambar (325WSM necked to 358). I put an aftermarket stock on it and it then started to feel good in the hands and recoil was not as sharp.

The German military M98s have excellent stocks to position the eye right where it needs to be for their open sights, it is just the length of pull was a one size fits all. I hate the look of Weatherby stocks but having shot one of their 378 I like the stock for the way it tames recoil.
 
I had a good plains game hunt in Botswana last month with my 9.3x63 shooting 286g norma Oryx at 2400fps, that bullet performance was perfect at that velocity, I took Eland, Kudu, blue wilderbeast , Gemsbok impala and a warthog, all went less that 40 yards except the Gemsbok that went a little further and required another shot or to, as my initial shot was a little high. It's a great calibre, and one of my favorite.

DSCF6666.JPG
 
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