9.3x62 + Norma bullets + Non-norma powder

[sgt_zim]

I think it's kind of weird that Alliant has had a nomenclature change. "Reloder-XX" seems to have served them well.

They also have a Power Pro 4000-MR
Power Pro Varmint
Power Pro 1200R

 

[sgt_zim]

I pinged Western Powders today.

Ramshot Magnum and 156 gr Oryx.

44.1 gr on the bottom, 49.0 grains on the top, 22" barrel, 2238 fps and 2511 fps.

 

[metricman]

I did some load development with the 285-grain Norma Oryx and RL-15. I was impressed that I got to 58 grains without showing any signs of excess pressure. I'm going to shot the oryx, Lupua Mega and the Nosler Partition with the RL-15 this weekend. I also worked a big with Big game. I had seen one load table online where they went to 66 grains with the Partition, but checked the Western website and saw a max of 62 grains. The Mega gave 2,478 and the Oryx went 2,488 at that grain weight. This was out of the 24" barrel of my Forbes 24B (I had the rifle rebarreled by Douglas).

the table to which you refer is probably the one from handloader magazine by john barsness.
in his book, the great book of gun gack, he notes that that load (66 gr big game with 286 gr nosler partition) was tested with the pressure trace system and did not exceed 60,000 psi

 

[Scrumbag]

Hi Sgt_Zim,

If you are interested in a little more velocity and can stomach the loss of 36gr bullet weight, it might be worth considering a 250gr Nosler Accubond.

250 gr Accubond
SD: 0.267, BC: 0.494

286gr Norma Oryx
SD: 0.305, BC:0.330

Nosler gives the Accubond an MV of 2525 with 56.5gr of Varget which I find a little more believable than some of the other claims you see written. (Norma factory ammo isn't usually rated as that slow snf 285gr oryx has an MV of 2362 according to their website).

On paper, the drop difference when zeroed at 200yds for a 300yd shot is a bit over 3" but I'd be tempted to say that the Accubond will shoot flatter with less effort and envelope pushing

What is your intended quarry species?

Scrummy

 

[sgt_zim]

Hi Sgt_Zim,

If you are interested in a little more velocity and can stomach the loss of 36gr bullet weight, it might be worth considering a 250gr Nosler Accubond.

250 gr Accubond
SD: 0.267, BC: 0.494

286gr Norma Oryx
SD: 0.305, BC:0.330

Nosler gives the Accubond an MV of 2525 with 56.5gr of Varget which I find a little more believable than some of the other claims you see written. (Norma factory ammo isn't usually rated as that slow snf 285gr oryx has an MV of 2362 according to their website).

On paper, the drop difference when zeroed at 200yds for a 300yd shot is a bit over 3" but I'd be tempted to say that the Accubond will shoot flatter with less effort and envelope pushing

What is your intended quarry species?

Scrummy

As it happens, Midway had NAB 250 gr on clearance a couple weeks ago and I bought a couple boxes.

For the foreseeable future, I'll be hunting oinks with it . IMO, they make good practice for requiring rapid follow-ons if you want to get more than one of them from the sounder.

I've also got some NP286. TBH, I don't expect a great deal of difference between any of the 286s.

I also picked up some Big Game at the same time. Western Powders sez I should be able to get 2600+ fps out of the 250s. I'm not holding my breath on that number.\

I was looking at some 375 H&H stuff for a friend in several of my books, and it occurred to me that without some fairly compressed loads, esp. on the Nosler bullets, 375H&H 300 gr velocities are upper 2200s to mid-2500s. Those look an awful lot like 9.3x62 velocities with 286 gr bullets.

I'm trying to finagle a moose hunt up near Holy Cross, AK for either next summer or the summer after. 250gr AB is more than enough pill for moose, and I should think it would be enough for any grizzlies that develop too keen an interest in my buddy or me.

I had tried Varget with the Hornady 286, but they seat so deep, I couldn't get but about 55 or 55.5 grains into the Norma brass without it turning into a compressed load. As it is, I'm north of 2400 fps with those bullets and 62gr 2000-MR.

 

[sestoppelman]

I took a 9.3x62 to Africa twice using two different bullets. I used the 250 Accubond first with 61 grs of IMR4064, very accurate. Next used a 250 Barnes Triple Shock with the same load, again excellent accuracy and performance. When using some Nosler 286 gr bullets, I had the best grouping with R15 powder. Just for clarification you don't have to use the cannelure on the bullets for seating but rather you should let your magazine length and the chamber throat to determine OAL and not worry about the crimp assuming you have adequate neck tension to hold the bullet and you probably do. Unless you plan to hunt really large game, like Alaska brown bear or Cape buffalo, the 286 is really not needed, and 250's shoot flatter. My rifles were CZ's.

 

[sgt_zim]

I took a 9.3x62 to Africa twice using two different bullets. I used the 250 Accubond first with 61 grs of IMR4064, very accurate. Next used a 250 Barnes Triple Shock with the same load, again excellent accuracy and performance. When using some Nosler 286 gr bullets, I had the best grouping with R15 powder. Just for clarification you don't have to use the cannelure on the bullets for seating but rather you should let your magazine length and the chamber throat to determine OAL and not worry about the crimp assuming you have adequate neck tension to hold the bullet and you probably do. Unless you plan to hunt really large game, like Alaska brown bear or Cape buffalo, the 286 is really not needed, and 250's shoot flatter. My rifles were CZ's.

That's sort of the direction I'm headed now. Assuming I get 1 MOA and 2500-2600 fps with the ABs, I'll stick with that bullet for that weight.

As far as the cannelure on the Hornady, I was trying to seat the bullets at the depth Hornady shows in manual X, giving a COAL of 3.125. I ended up with a COAL of 3.165. Nosler shows COAL of 3.230 and 3.130 for 250 and 286, respectively.

 

[sestoppelman]

Don't get too concerned about the book OAL, go by your rifles dimensions, mag length and throat allowance.

 

[sgt_zim]

I learned that lesson with my 6.5x55. Guess I need to relearn it for the 9.3

@Shootist43 told me to give my bullets a bit of a jump, and it worked

5 shots from 100 yds

 

[dchamp]

Alliant 2000MR is a good powder for the 9.3x62. My son uses it with 61.0gr's of powder and a 250gr TTSX and is getting around 2550fps. I am using 62.2gr's of CFE223 shooting a 250gr TTSX at 2545fps. Neither one of us has developed a load with a 286gr bullet though. Personally I find it a stretch pushing a 286gr 9.3 bullet 2500fps+.

For reference: I have some Norma factory ammo and the 286gr Oryx load is 3.203" oal.
QuickLoad projects 285gr Oryx @ 3.203"oal.
60.5gr's CFE223 - 91% fill, 2433fps & 56,241psi
61.5gr's Ramshot - 97% fill, 2439fps & 56,799psi
2000MR N/A

 

[sgt_zim]

which Ramshot? Big Game or Hunter?

 

[dchamp]

Oh I sorry wasn't thinking ...Big Game

 

[MS 9x56]

I was re-looking at the western powders data.

They're showing 2550 fps with 62 gr of Big Game for 286 gr bullets. That seems crazy high for that weight. Does that sound right to you guys @Shootist43 and @375 Ruger Fan ?

My gripe about Varget is I run out of case capacity between 55 and 56 grains. Hornady and Nosler both have published loads for it.

If I can get an accurate and honest 2500 fps out of Partitions or Orxy/Alaska 285, I reckon those will end up being my loads.

That does seem crazy high. I am only getting 2500 with 250 grain bullets and about 2300 with 286 grain.

 

[Longwalker]

My load is RL 15 @ 58 gr. Under a Norma Oryx, Lapua Mega or PPU 286 SP gr. bullet fired by Remington 9-1/2 M primers, and either Norma or Lapua cases. 2400 fps in my Verney-Carron and very accurate. First load I tried ( worked up from below to ensure safety) and no need to try anything else.

 

[bruce moulds]

zim,
be wary of terminal performance with the 286 partition at much above x62 factory velocities.
don't ask me how I know this.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Anyone have any load data for Norma 286 gr that doesn't use norma powder?

Sgt Zim
As you have CFE223
Nosler 286 part 61 to64 grains
Hornaday 286 SPRN 56 TO61 GRAINS
BARNES 286 TSX 56 TO 61 grains
These loads are for CFE223 only
Min and max loads for each
Pressures are 48-52,000 cup
Hope this helps mate.
I know your happy with it in the 08, I love it in the Whelen. You might need to get a few more 8 pound jugs.
Cheers
Bob Nelson

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Sgt_ Zim, I see that you were referred to Nathan Foster's Knowledge Base. I'm glad to see that others are making reference to it. This is where I get my 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser reload data from. Back to the 9.3 x 62, I see that Nathan suggests the use of IMR 4064 which is the same powder I use in my 35 Whelen. Works well.

Shootist43
Nathan and his wife are very knowledgeable people and very easy to talk to. I spoke to him about the newer powders available now. Unfortunately he hasn't had much to do with some of them as he does all his testing personally or uses the info gathered by guiding other and doing the work. If he had to do it all himself he would go broke real quick. Nathan is a great bloke and full of info that his is willing to talk about.
Art when are you going to try CFE223 in your Whelen, then you u will have to read Nathan's notes on the 358 Norma mag.
The Sarge has tried it in his 08 and likes it. Hopefully you have got the thumb drive I sent you.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I use 56gr ADI2208 which is the same as Varget. This is with a 286gr prvi partisan roundnose. Gives 2200ish in a 24" barrel. This is essentially a start load so would be fine to start with the Norma projectile. Other people I know use ADI2209 which is H4350.

Stuff
Have a look at the loads with CFE223 the give around 2,500 fps with the 286grainers.
Great powder but if you are like me and in OZ it's hard to get here so if you find any grab it and run.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well done on the shooting.

I sorta figured that 66 gr sounded far-fetched. Even Ramshot's published data for 286 gr @2550 fps sounds overly optimistic. Who knows without some testing, right? FWIW, and amazingly, the 286 partition has the highest BC of any of the premium 286 grs (Lapua, Swift, Woodleigh, and Norma are all below .4), so maybe 2500 is possible.

Sgt Zim
The load for rmthe Nosler accubonds I have you have a velocity of close on 2,570 fps at max load and a 24inch barrel.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

One thing I was looking at on the Hornady vs Nosler: the cannelure on the Hornady is a bit closer to the ogive than it is on the Nosler. If I seat both bullets at the cannelure and use the same charge weight of powder, this would seem to suggest that the more deeply-seated Hornady will be faster since the firing chamber is slightly smaller. Or have I got it precisely backwards?

Sgt Zim
Depends on the amount of bearing surface, hardness of jacket and core, seating depth. ALWAYS START LOW WITH A NEW BULLET AND WORK UP.
In the 35 Whelen the 250 grain Hornaday RN needs 4 grains more powder to reach the same speed as the 250 grain spire point. Even tho they are the same weigh and same jacket material and core the bearing surfaces are different.
Hope this helps
Cheers mat Bob.