505 gibbs load suggestion

matt85

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the selection of bullets for the 505 Gibbs isn't huge however it isn't as small as I thought it would be. so im trying to figure out what bullet might be most suited for a buffalo hunt (assuming I bring the 505).

my first thought is to mimic the Kynoch load of a 525gr Woodleigh soft/solid at around 2150fps. this is a very mild load for the 505 Gibbs but seems like it would be plenty to flatten an old buffalo. the reduced recoil of this mild load also seems like it would allow for quicker follow up shots. but then the power junky in me thinks "any thing worth killing is worth over killing" and I start to think of other much more powerful loads for the rifle.

which do you like? why?

1 - 525gr Woodleigh soft/solid at 2150fps
2 - 525gr Swift A-frame at 2300fps
3 - 525gr Barnes TSX at 2300fps
4 - 525gr North Fork cup solid at 2300fps
5 - 525gr CEB safari solid at 2300fps
6 - 600gr Woodleigh soft/solid at 2150fps

I could also hot load the cartridge to much higher speeds but that seems really unnecessary for a buffalo. there is always combinations such as a Woodleigh or Swift 525gr soft backed up by CEB solids or North fork cup solids loaded to match the Woodleigh's/Swift's impact.

thanks
-matt
 

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Hey Matt,
If you want, I could put you in contact with Kevin Robertson, who put together "The Perfect Shot" . He used a 505Gibbs on many many buffalo, and was one of the finest marksmen using that 505, I had the pleasure of witnessing.

Would be hard to find a guy with more experience shooting the .505 Gibbs than him.
 

matt85

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I would appreciate that Marius, thank you.

note: The name Kevin Robertson sounded familiar but I couldn't remember where id seen it. then I picked up my box of Norma 600gr sp 505 Gibbs ammunition and his name is right there on the box. (y)

-matt
 

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flatwater bill

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Marius................I would also like to hear what Mr Robertson has to say regarding effective loads for buff in the big Gibbs. I am negotiating to buy my long anticipated rifle in this caliber. Now that the rage is super penetration with the 600 grains, I wonder if they are really a step backward for buff. Maybe better for elephant only. The rifle made its reputation on having an impact velocity in excess of other standard round's muzzlevelocities.............a buff shot 50 yards distant was hit at 2250-2350fps instead of 1900. I wonder if giving up that speed to push a 600 grain bullet may sacrifice something on buffalo.

Anyway, buff is all I will ever use it on, and now as I set up to load for this monster, all components are expensive. I would start off with whatever Robertson felt worked best on buffalo..................................FWB
 

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As soon as I hear from Doctari, I will see if I can get him to join AH and let the fine members of this forum pick his brain.
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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My experience with the .505 Gibbs consists of having pulled the trigger on a rifle in this caliber exactly one time. It was all good, it only took a couple of weeks before the kidney vibrations subsided. :whistle: So I can't share with you any experience.

But I have loads for my .458B&M using the CEB offerings. My "soft" is the Safari Raptor in 420gr and the solid is the 450gr. Point of impact difference at 100 yards between the two was roughly an inch, which I think is plenty close enough for DG ranges.

I think if you went this route, there's nothing on this planet that isn't going to die and quickly with that combo. The CEB solids are noted not just for their deep but also straight line penetration.
 

matt85

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a correction to my original post. Swift makes a 535gr and a 570gr A-frame bullet in the .505" diameter not a 525gr.

-matt
 

CAustin

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Big Gun. The property owner I. The Kalahari where I hunted lioness carried one. He didn't fire it. Said the rounds were $20 each so if that is true not too many people shooting at that price.
 

matt85

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you can keep an eye out for sales and clearance deals on ammunition then it can be had for closer to $13 a shot. the cartridge can also be hand loaded for relatively cheap using Woodleigh SP bullets or even cast bullets. Jamison brass can be had for about $3.50 a piece and the 505 Gibbs cartridge operates at very low pressures so brass life should be very good. the real cost will be powder and at around 120gr per pull, it eats a lot of it!

using a new piece of brass and a Woodleigh SP bullet it would cost me about $6 a shot. with a cast bullet that drops down to about $4.50 a shot. when you reuse the brass the price drops even more. so shooting for around $2 a pull with this gun is well within the realm of possible assuming your a hand loader.

-matt
 
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CAustin

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Matt85 I wish I knew how to reload as my 416 Rugers are about $4.00 a round. I've been saving the brass thinking I might try my hand at reloading one day. The thing is I don't shoot really enough to go out and buy all the things needed to reload.
 

colorado

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I'm waiting to hear from Kevin, but in the meantime, I think the 535 A-Frame at 2300 fps, and either the 570g A-Frame or 600g Woodleigh at 2150 fps would all be excellent choices. As for myself my pet load for my 500 Jeffery has been the 570g TSX at 2300 fps, very accurate, brisk but manageable recoil. My sickness continues as I've had 100 570g A-Frames sitting on the reloading shelf and I just bought some IMR 4350. I want to see if I can get those bad boys to go 2500 fps with good accuracy and no pressure signs.
 
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flatwater bill

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Colorado......................................sounds like a fun project. A 570 grainer at 2500 fps generates 7912 ft lbs of energy. Should be adequate for those high country mulies. Be cautious, it might recoil just a bit..............FWB
 

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matt85

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I'm waiting to hear from Kevin, but in the meantime, I think the 535 A-Frame at 2300 fps, and either the 570g A-Frame or 600g Woodleigh at 2150 fps would all be excellent choices. As for myself my pet load for my 500 Jeffery has been the 570g TSX at 2300 fps, very accurate, brisk but manageable recoil. My sickness continues as I've had 100 570g A-Frames sitting on the reloading shelf and I just bought some IMR 4350. I want to see if I can get those bad boys to go 2500 fps with good accuracy and no pressure signs.

a 570gr bullet at 2300 is no slouch for sure! you might consider trying a banded bullet in your quest for speed. bullets like Barnes, CEB, and North Fork should generate less pressure then a Swift A-frame and should allow for higher velocities. (not to say the Swift A-frame wont do it)

ive read of people getting the 505 Gibbs to push a 600gr bullet at 2500fps. but im not sure im personally ready to unleash that kinda power from my shoulder. it might be fun to try at the range someday but I just don't see any practical purpose for that level of power.

its just a theory but I suspect the original loads for both the 500 Jeffery and the 505 Gibbs were likely less powerful then they claimed to be. given bullet tech of the early 20th century none of the SP bullets of this size would have held up in any way at 2300+ fps. my guess is they were likely closer to 2200 fps or maybe even less. both the .505" 525gr bullet and the .510" 535gr bullet should have enough SD to be effective at standard NE velocities. to back up this claim I can use Kynoch 505 Gibbs ammunition as an example. they claim to push their 525gr bullets at 2300fps. however according to a number of people who have tested them, they clock at around 2150fps. but despite this reduced velocity kynoch ammunition has successfully been used by many people to take DG.

-matt
 

doctari505

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Hey you guys it is Doctari here.
I still carry my .505 every day here in the Kruger Park and have just used it to get my advanced rifle handling ticket so it is legal to do so. It takes about 20 blows to pass so that is always a wake-up call!
I shot three buff with the first Kilimanjaro Doctari .505 ( a copy of mine) in Zim in 2012. Tested 600 grn North Fork Cup Nosed Solids at 2140 fps. Shot two old bulls with them and had two one shot kills. The third was shot with 600 grn Woodleigh PP and had some problems.
From side-on the CNS's shot right through but the wound channels were big enough to drop a gold ball through!
To test the penetration on CNS to see if they were ok for back-up shots I set up a dead bull on his chest and shot him next to his tail from 30 m with a CNS - so angled to pass through the rumen. I recovered the bullet when I took his lungs out, it was in the very front of his chest cavity and there was rumen content all the way through the lungs - sucked in by the CNS as it penetrated through the lungs.
There is always a dilemma as to what to use with buff - but since using the 600 grn CNS it would be my choice for the first and any backing shots required - but with the provisor that it will invariably exit from side-on. As I only hunt old lone bulls or dagga boys, this is not usually a problem - I would however be very cautious of using these bullets in a herd situation.
600 grainers at 2150 shift the .505 up a gear that is for sure.
My carry load here in the KNP is 600 grn Dzombo's at 2100 fps. I can give you my load data if you e-mail me.
Hope this helps - Doctari
 

Velo Dog

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Hello Doctari505,

Welcome to this forum and thank you for joining.

And, thank you for writing your excellent books.

Many here own some or all of them and from time to time we refer to your words of wisdom in these discussions.

Specifically, "The Perfect Shot" is the only book I have yet seen that trumps John "Pondoro" Taylor's informative book; "African Rifles and Cartridges".

Velo Dog
(Paul Ard in Anchorage, Alaska).
 

matt85

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Welcome to the forum doctari505!

what kind of problems did you have with the 600gr Woodleigh PP? do you strictly use 600gr bullets or have you played with any of the 525gr bullets?

unfortunately, my options for 600gr bullets are very limited with Woodleigh and North Fork being the only ones I know of. there is the 570gr Swift A-frame as an option though.

thank you
-Matt
 
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colorado

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Welcome! Have you had any experience with the 525g TSX in your 505 Gibbs?
 

Royal27

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Welcome!!!

Great to have you here and hope you will post some when you have time.

Thanks Marius for getting Doctor to join!
 

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