500 Jeffery loads for the 570g TSX and IMR 4350

[colorado]

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So I'm in between hunting seasons (elk in a month!) and my 3 lbs of IMR 4350 just showed up. I looked in my Barnes Manual Number 4 and I don't find any loads for IMR 4350. There are some loads in a "real guns" article on the CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery starting at 120g for 2415 fps and maxing at 126g at 2522 fps (oh my!)

http://www.realguns.com/archives/157.htm

I know there are a few 500 Jeffery / 500 A2 shooters here so any suggestions are welcome. My current load of 103g of H4895 pushing the 570g TSX to 2300 fps is very accurate so don't ask me why I'm pushing it. I will work up slowly and be safe ...


Regards,

Chuck

 

[matt85]

not sure how different the 500 Jeffery and the 505 Gibbs are but i plan on trying the same two powders in my 505 Gibbs. IMR 4350 worked very well in my 500/416 NE (around 91-92 grains) and i imagine it should work pretty well in the 505 Gibbs. i asked Nork Fork about using IMR 4350 to push their 600gr solid and they suggested 125gr to push it around 2150fps. they assured me this was no where near the max for the 505 Gibbs but i dont know about the Jeffery.

if you get the case capacity of the 505 Gibbs and the 500 Jeffery then you should be able to work out the difference between the two and adjust North Forks load accordingly.

-matt

 

[colorado]

Thanks Matt!

 

[matt85]

after using google a bit to search for case capacity according to random internest sources the case capacity of the 505 Gibbs cartridge is around 178gr and the 500 jeffery is around 154. this gives you around 14% less case capacity with your 500 jeffery.

with that in mind, 107gr of IMR 4350 is a very rough estimate for acheiving 2150 fps with your 500 Jeffery using a 570gr bullet. i would start at 103gr and see what it does over a chronograph.

note: use my load info at your own risk!

-matt

 

[colorado]

Hi Matt, in between smoking a brisket, helping my son with his applications for graduate school (4 more years without a safari!), I have been reloading. I've got my baseline loading done for elk season (570g TSX, Jamison brass, Federal 215 primers, 103g H4895 for 2300 fps). I've also loaded three of each:

570g TSX, Jamison brass Federal 215 primers

120g IMR 4350
122g IMR 4350
124g IMR 4350
126g IMR 4350

I hope to make it to the range next weekend and will post results.

Best Regards,

Chuck

 

[matt85]

watch for pressure signs and keep us posted on velocities obtained. im sure other 500 Jeffery shooters will be interested in your results. slinging a 570gr bullet at 2500fps (7900 ft/lb of energy) is not for the faint hearted!

ive heard of people pushing the 505 Gibbs to 2500fps with the 600gr bullet (8300 ft/lb of energy)... but I'm not sure I'll ever try it . the standard NE velocity (2150 fps) for both of these cartridges puts them in the 6000 ft/lb energy range which makes them both monsters by most peoples standards.

I plan on trying your 103gr H4895 load in my 505 Gibbs. should be interesting to see how much less velocity I get with the larger case. I use pillow stuffing as filler and with 103gr of powder it will take a lot of filler. im sure I will be the most popular guy at the range with pillow fluff floating every where!

-matt

 

[colorado]

Well, I got back from the range. I loaded 3 rounds of each

570g TSX, Jamison Brass, Federal 215 primers OAL 3.63 for all loads

122g IMR 4350 2410 fps avg spread 20 fps, compressed, accuracy for the one group 1.5" at 100 yards recoil about the same as my control load

124g IMR 4350 2470 fps avg spread 40 fps more compressed, accuracy worse recoil getting stiff

126g IMR 4350 2570 fps avg spread 80 fps very compressed load accuracy horrible recoil unpleasant

My control (and favorite) load to date

103g H4895 2320 fps avg spread 10 fps accuracy better than .75" at 100 yards recoil invigorating but shootable and enjoyable


Conclusions: I'm staying with my tried and true load of 103g H4895. I think if I was loading 570g Swift A-Frames the loads wouldn't have been so compressed, velocity variance would've been less and accuracy might be better. I will probably try them after elk season. A worthy experiment, no shoulder bruises, no headaches, no ill effects on rifle or shooter

 

[matt85]

judging from your results it looks like you might get what you want at around 118-120gr.

but as I said before, I like your idea of using H4895 for this big bores. less powder used means less cost per round and its not like powder is easily available these days. less powder also means less recoil which makes the gun easier to get back on target.

note: if you found a 570gr bullet at 2470fps to be just "stiff" we need to get you a bigger gun. have you looked at the 585 Nyati?



-matt

 

[Royal27]

You guys are both animals! That is all.

 

[matt85]

Royal27 you need to get one of these cannons and join us! both the 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs will sling 570gr/600gr of lead down range as fast as you could ever want. I believe our friend Colorado just proved that by slinging 570gr bullets at 2570fps!

-matt

 

[Royal27]

That ain't no lie!!!!

Y'all are making me feel like a wimp for just thinking about getting that Itty bitty Lott!

 

[matt85]

the 458 Lott is nothing to sneeze at! it easily sits in the same power level as the 500 NE and standard 505 Gibbs loads. the Gibbs (custom loads) and Jeffery can beat the Lott for power but then again .458" bullets are cheaper and more available. you can get 458 Lott brass made by Hornady for cheap or make your own brass from 375 H&H brass. both the Gibbs and the Jeffery require special brass which is much less available and expensive. the Gibbs and Jeffery also require special large size reloading presses and dies which adds to the cost.

-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

I will forever scratch my head as to why H&H never introduced something like the Lott, on that same fateful day they unveiled their incredible .375 Magnum.
They could have called it "The .450 Holland & Holland Belted Rimless Magnum" or some such.
Perhaps they figured that Jeffery's .404 was so adequate in repeaters that it might not sell well.
Or perhaps that, it might sell so well that their .500/450 doubles and .465 Doubles sales might drop a bit too much.
Who knows? - I will never figure that one out.
But at least we now have the Lott version in factory available (sometimes) ammunition and reloading components.

 

[matt85]

im with you Velo Dog, Rigby put out a 450 Rigby and Weatherby made the 460 Weatherby. why has Holland & Holland not put out a 45 caliber rimless cartridge?

-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

im with you Velo Dog, Rigby put out a 450 Rigby and Weatherby made the 460 Weatherby. why has Holland & Holland not put out a 45 caliber rimless cartridge?

-matt

Hi Matt85,

Whatever the answer to that riddle is, it is definitely too late now.
Even though,their .400 H&H Belted Rimless looks real good - it's just probably not good enough to catch up to the .416 Rgby and .404 Jfry in sales, not likely by a long shot, pardon the pun.
Their .465 Belted Rimless seems like a potentally great DG cartridge for large repeaters.
Their old .465 NE Flanged H&H is a fine cartridge in their doubles, according to Tony Sanchez-Arino, who has taken a number of elephant with same.
But again, the rimless/belted version is too late.

While we're on this note, I wonder why H&H did not introduce a whole lineup of cartridges based on the .375 magnum brass, same length, same distinct sloping "H&H shoulder".
They could've mad a 6.5 Magnum, a 7mm, (they did it well in .30), a .33, probably no need for a .35 since they did it well with the .37, a .40 (now they finally did that one), and like we briefly discussed, a .45 - similar to the Lott.

(They actually did have a 7mm but it was shortened to about 7 mmRemington or 7 mm Weatherby length and had sharper shoulder than their .375 and .300 H&H).

Some folks like to whimper that the .300 and .375 long sloping shoulder serves no purpose today since cordite, axite and similar long-stick propellants are no longer used.
But in a hot chamber from direct sun and firing more than one or two shots in rapid succession, those two cartridges still want to jump into the rifle as you close the bolt and out of the rifle as you open the bolt, very slick feeders and ejectors of empty brass those two.

When I worked in a gunshop part time, more than one Model-70 Winchester came back to us in these newer, very square shouldered, super short magnums, because they would not feed from their magazines.
Trying to run them reminded me of what it must be like trying to force-feed bricks to a canary.
The .300 H&H and .375 H&H has no such issues, in my experiences anyway.

Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[matt85]

Velo Dog, this topic is interesting. we should move it to a new thread as not to hijack this thread.

-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog, this topic is interesting. we should move it to a new thread as not to hijack this thread.

-matt

You're too right.
Forgive me (and be with the starving pigmys in New Guinea).
Often I get to rambling and have difficulty stopping, typical old fart behavior.
It's a shame we're not around some campfire, kudu fillets in the grill and ice cold Windhoek Lagers in the nearby cooler box.
My apologies to Colorado and anyone else who was derailed by my rant on H&H possibilities.
Out.

 

[colorado]

No apologies needed. Some great posts here ...

 

[Velo Dog]

No apologies needed. Some great posts here ...

Thanks Colorado and I look forward to how your .500 Jeffery vs the elk ends up.

I plan to carry mine back and fourth to my cabin (no road to it so, it is an hour or so hike) in case I bump into a greasy old bear - which I have done there more than once but they ran the other way - fortunately for both of us I think - especially for them lol.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.