470 Reduced Practice Loads

[Racer00]

I am new to the double world. Thanks to all of you enablers, I now own a beautiful Merkel 470NE. I took it to JJ last week and he cut it for a red dot (eyes are at that stage). I am going to begin reloading for it. Thanks to some info from JJ and also our very own Rare Breed, I have a decent idea where I should start.
My question for all of you experienced double gun nuts is have any of you ever loaded reduced loads for practice? I know that a lot of 375 H&H and 416 Rigby shooters load 5744 behind hard cast lead for reduce practice recoil shooting.
My thoughts are after finding my regulating load, if I could load some reduced loads for practice, it would enable me to shoot more. I really don't care about the regulation of the reduced loads. If they hit 5" low and 10" apart, I am ok with that. As long as they group somewhat consistently, it would allow me to practice live fire and work on my reloading skills under somewhat gameday situations. Mostly building muscle memory for rapid reloading is my thought.
Am I crazy? Or do you think this is feasible and sensible?
Looking forward to your comments or critiques.
Thanks for all input,
Jody Racer 00

 

[rookhawk]

It’s not easy to do with 470NE.

Generally speaking, to get this to work you need reasonable accuracy (broadside of a barn). What people usually do is try to mimic the same velocity you had with the full load, but with a lighter bullet, thus your gun has relatively similar regulation properties.

470NE is a 500gr bullet, so you’d find a .471” to .474” bullet that was perhaps 380-400gr for your reduced load. You’d then select the fastest burning powder safe for that load and would try to regulate using as close to a starting load as possible.

Expensive, time consuming, specialty work for you to do this. You’ll need to be a proficient handloader as well.

For me, I’d just shoot off sticks to reduce my perceived recoil and I’d develop a load that has less recoil. An IMR3031 “full load” with 77gr of powder and 500gr bullet produces 58lbs of recoil, a full load with IMR4831 106gr of powder produces 89lbs of felt recoil. RL15 also is a low perceived recoil full load.

What you’ve asked is much easier to do with a magazine rifle because regulation isn’t a factor. It’s doubly hard with a 470NE because there are fewer light bullet options than say a 500NE that has a standard 570gr bullet but also an obtainable 440gr alternative.

 

[wildwilderness]

So the recommendation is to use IMR 3031 with the 500gr bullet?

Can it be used with a lighter bullet?

 

[Racer00]

Thanks for the reply Rookhawk. The load the previous owner had worked up was with a very heavy charge of 4831. I fired a couple of these loads and my chronograph showed almost 2300 fps. I was concerned that it was over charged and stopped shooting them. JJ agreed that it was probably going to be detrimental to my rifle in the long term and he recommended 3031. I have picked up a cpl pounds of 3031 to try.
I am not recoil adverse, but no one wants or needs excessive punishment that eventually makes shooting a chore and not fun.

 

[Philip Glass]

I am new to the double world. Thanks to all of you enablers, I now own a beautiful Merkel 470NE. I took it to JJ last week and he cut it for a red dot (eyes are at that stage). I am going to begin reloading for it. Thanks to some info from JJ and also our very own Rare Breed, I have a decent idea where I should start.
My question for all of you experienced double gun nuts is have any of you ever loaded reduced loads for practice? I know that a lot of 375 H&H and 416 Rigby shooters load 5744 behind hard cast lead for reduce practice recoil shooting.
My thoughts are after finding my regulating load, if I could load some reduced loads for practice, it would enable me to shoot more. I really don't care about the regulation of the reduced loads. If they hit 5" low and 10" apart, I am ok with that. As long as they group somewhat consistently, it would allow me to practice live fire and work on my reloading skills under somewhat gameday situations. Mostly building muscle memory for rapid reloading is my thought.
Am I crazy? Or do you think this is feasible and sensible?
Looking forward to your comments or critiques.
Thanks for all input,
Jody Racer 00

I had Safari Arms load some for me for practice. It is a good idea but there are going to be vastly different on paper than regular loads. I solved my problem by going to the .450/400.

 

[deewayne2003]

My .470 is loaded with 3031 and I would suggest foam backer road over Dacron because the backer rod produces lower pressures and I've also read there can be a chemical reaction between the powder and Dacron; so I switched to foam backer rod.

Get yourself a double barrel 12ga with same length barrels and double triggers and use it for practice and familiarize yourself with it and use full power loads to practice with in your .470

 

[rookhawk]

My .470 is loaded with 3031 and I would suggest foam backer road over Dacron because the backer rod produces lower pressures and I've also read there can be a chemical reaction between the powder and Dacron; so I switched to foam backer rod.

Get yourself a double barrel 12ga with same length barrels and double triggers and use it for practice and familiarize yourself with it and use full power loads to practice with in your .470

This is true. Mine regulated beautifully with Dacron, but a friend got poor regulation. He then used Kynoch wads with 77gr of imr3031 and got excellent regulation at even lower pressure. This is the lowest recoil “full load”.

 

[deewayne2003]

This is true. Mine regulated beautifully with Dacron, but a friend got poor regulation. He then used Kynoch wads with 77gr of imr3031 and got excellent regulation at even lower pressure. This is the lowest recoil “full load”.

I had great regulation with Dacron - 78gr IMR3031, 2.0gr Dacron, 500gr bullet, Win Magnum primer; this was the load that Ken worked up and regulated the rifle with.

Then I became aware of the pressure & chemical reaction issue and switched to the Kynoch wads from Trader Keith and the point of impact and velocity was exactly the same as with the Dacron.

The Kynoch wads are expensive for what they are, however it's easily justifiable to spare myself the pain in the ass of measuring Dacron.

 

[rookhawk]

I had great regulation with Dacron - 78gr IMR3031, 2.0gr Dacron, 500gr bullet, Win Magnum primer; this was the load that Ken worked up and regulated the rifle with.

Then I became aware of the pressure & chemical reaction issue and switched to the Kynoch wads from Trader Keith and the point of impact and velocity was exactly the same as with the Dacron.

The Kynoch wads are expensive for what they are, however it's easily justifiable to spare myself the pain in the ass of measuring Dacron.

In a recent trial by @Wahoo he was getting poor regulation with dacron, but got excellent regulation with the kynoch wads. I believe his chrony showed lower velocity at a given pressure and load with kynoch wads, surely altering regulation. Note, my 470NE heym and his are made in same year and my regulation was the opposite, it was very good with dacron at same grain weight his gun was excellent with kynoch.

My opinion is that if dacron is safe at a given load, the kynoch wad opens up more options to fine tune your regulation. But I'm a conservative guy and like starting to moderate loads with big bores. The goal is getting passed 2050fps at the muzzle with great regulation. It seems that these loads are around 2150fps at the muzzle of a 24" gun. That's all a man needs to take down every animal on earth.

 

[Wahoo]

In a recent trial by @Wahoo he was getting poor regulation with dacron, but got excellent regulation with the kynoch wads. I believe his chrony showed lower velocity at a given pressure and load with kynoch wads, surely altering regulation. Note, my 470NE heym and his are made in same year and my regulation was the opposite, it was very good with dacron at same grain weight his gun was excellent with kynoch.

My opinion is that if dacron is safe at a given load, the kynoch wad opens up more options to fine tune your regulation. But I'm a conservative guy and like starting to moderate loads with big bores. The goal is getting passed 2050fps at the muzzle with great regulation. It seems that these loads are around 2150fps at the muzzle of a 24" gun. That's all a man needs to take down every animal on earth.

True story.

 

[Wahoo]

In a recent trial by @Wahoo he was getting poor regulation with dacron, but got excellent regulation with the kynoch wads. I believe his chrony showed lower velocity at a given pressure and load with kynoch wads, surely altering regulation. Note, my 470NE heym and his are made in same year and my regulation was the opposite, it was very good with dacron at same grain weight his gun was excellent with kynoch.

My opinion is that if dacron is safe at a given load, the kynoch wad opens up more options to fine tune your regulation. But I'm a conservative guy and like starting to moderate loads with big bores. The goal is getting passed 2050fps at the muzzle with great regulation. It seems that these loads are around 2150fps at the muzzle of a 24" gun. That's all a man needs to take down every animal on earth.

 

[Rare Breed]

It’s not easy to do with 470NE.

Generally speaking, to get this to work you need reasonable accuracy (broadside of a barn). What people usually do is try to mimic the same velocity you had with the full load, but with a lighter bullet, thus your gun has relatively similar regulation properties.

470NE is a 500gr bullet, so you’d find a .471” to .474” bullet that was perhaps 380-400gr for your reduced load. You’d then select the fastest burning powder safe for that load and would try to regulate using as close to a starting load as possible.

Expensive, time consuming, specialty work for you to do this. You’ll need to be a proficient handloader as well.

For me, I’d just shoot off sticks to reduce my perceived recoil and I’d develop a load that has less recoil. An IMR3031 “full load” with 77gr of powder and 500gr bullet produces 58lbs of recoil, a full load with IMR4831 106gr of powder produces 89lbs of felt recoil. RL15 also is a low perceived recoil full load.

What you’ve asked is much easier to do with a magazine rifle because regulation isn’t a factor. It’s doubly hard with a 470NE because there are fewer light bullet options than say a 500NE that has a standard 570gr bullet but also an obtainable 440gr alternative.

First so awesome and congratulations on both your DR and taking it to JJ!!! Second really listen to @rookhawk here as he and I have experienced the same thing…you are really asking for reduced recoil. Please always remember, Find the bullet weight and FPS that you rifle best regulates then find the powder with the lowest weight that gives that. @rookhawk is spot on sharing lower powder charges with either IMR3031 or RL 15.5 at 78 to 84 grams versus other powders at 105-106 grams. Choose the firmer and practice off sticks. Your confidence will absolutely sore with this thinking. Again, congratulations and welcome to the DR club!!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

former

 

[Rare Breed]

I highly recommend going to Trader Keith and buying #2 fillers for your 470. Yes more cost but so worth it for the exact precision a DR requires

 

[Racer00]

#2 fillers on order from TK. And I realize there is a little more cost than dacron filler, but in the big picture we are not talking a budget breaking expense. At $22/hundred I will manage. LOL.
Thanks for all the advice. Looking forward to the ride. Just something about holding a double that takes a person back.
On another note. Todays main project is getting a Lee Factory Crimp die on the way for the 470 as well.

 

[wildwilderness]

My .470 is loaded with 3031 and I would suggest foam backer road over Dacron because the backer rod produces lower pressures and I've also read there can be a chemical reaction between the powder and Dacron; so I switched to foam backer rod.

Get yourself a double barrel 12ga with same length barrels and double triggers and use it for practice and familiarize yourself with it and use full power loads to practice with in your .470

Which backer rod- open or closed cell? Any specific diameter?



I new I should have bought a CZ sxs shotgun last year when I found them on clearance AND a $100 factory rebate!

 

[1r4rc]

See also another thread here. Worked great for practice. Fun to shoot.

Post in thread 'Handgun bullets in a 470 NE?'

Dec 10, 2020

Works great! I shoot a lot of practice w/ them. No leading. Regulate beautifully and shoot just a bit low of full pwr loads in my 470. I use Montana Bullets (Linebaugh) LBT 420 gr WFN-GC sized .475 over Trail Boss powder. Was in touch w/ ADI, Hodgdon and Graeme Wright (who's written on reduced loads) a few yrs ago when working up loads. Consensus was it worked well. Attached are open sights, off sticks, at 50 & 100 yds (small holes are not mine). Great fun for practice and plinking.

• 1r4rc

 

[Spey]

My .470 is my first double that I plan on taking for DG next time (Used a .458 Lott on buff this year). I bought an old SBS shotgun that has the same manual of arms as the .470, triggers, safety and action release. I use this for sporting clays at times so I practice on moving targets as well as manual of arms. It's just much lighter of course. Been using factory Barnes TSX for the .470 and now that I have plenty of brass I am thinking about loading my own. BTW J.J. installed the red dot on my .470 as well. ~ Rich

 

[deewayne2003]

Which backer rod- open or closed cell? Any specific diameter?



I new I should have bought a CZ sxs shotgun last year when I found them on clearance AND a $100 factory rebate!

I use the Kynoch #2 wads from Trader Keith - FYI they are open cell foam.

Trader Keith

 

[C.W. Richter]

IDT 470 NE is the greatest recoil producer to shoot. That said, use full po loads and a (an additional) slip-on recoil pad. The pull length will be off slightly, but pull it in tight and enjoy shooting precisely what you will in country. I used to sight in heavy handloads w/ a 300 WM as a kid using this very method.