458 Lott with 3031 and RL15

machinistbutler

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Sent an email to Swift for any data they can offer for the 500 and 450 grain Aframes. I have some 500 grain Barnes TSX as well.

I have found a bit of data, but not alot for the Lott. I did find a bit for the 458 Win . My older manuals have some 458 Win data, but none have the Lott.

Using a CZ 550 , Hornady brass.

RL 15 data for the 500 seems to start around 74 grains up to 83 grains. I am not sure if anyone has an up to date manual with any data for these powders.

Thanks a bunch

Craig
 

MMAL

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Hornady version 10 page on 458 lott

As you can tell I always notice some big difference between bullet mfg and powder mfg max loads. As such, you know the drill. Start low and work up and use a chrono. You will then find the sweet spot for your rifle.
 

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machinistbutler

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Thanks a bunch guys. I had found the single page on the nosler , and a bit on Barnes. I read on an earlier thread that swift goes up to 83 or 84 grains of RL 15, but yet the Hornady data is much lower. Nosler kind of in between.

I loaded some up with some swift and Nosler solids with RL 15 this evening. I will make some 3031 loads when I get back from the woods .

I used 3031 in the 458 Win with good results. Just over 2000 fps with some Barnes 450 grain and Rem 405 grain to try out the rifle. They shot good in the Zastava and the CZ as well .
 

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Have loaded the 458 Lott for about 25 years. Found that Imr 4320 was the only powder that gave me fpm that I wanted. As IMR 4320 is no more went on a hunt to find a replacement. In talking with the Ramshot people I-tried Tac. Gave me the vel I wanted with Swift A Frames and TB Sledge Hammers.No compressed powder loads to do so. Have loaded Rl 15 and it did ok but Tac is better as to powder compression.
 

machinistbutler

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I found a few places that I can order tac in by mail, not sure if any stores locally carry it .

I will take my chrony to work and see what velocity I am getting. The nosler solids did compress the powder a touch when I seated the bullets, I don't think the a frames did , they are a much shorter bullet than the Nosler solids or the tsx. The 450 a frames are much shorter yet, but I will get the 500 shooting well before I start with the 450's .
 

machinistbutler

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Shot some over the chrony and tested out my new 3 ring set up on the CZ . The heavy Razor scope stayed put and dialed in quickly.

With 77 grains RL 15 in Hornady brass I was reading 2150 fps with the 500 grain Aframes.

79 grains they were right around the 2200 fps mark. At 79 grains you can feel the heel of the bullet start to touch the powder when loading. I don't think it is much compression, buy you definitely cannot feel any powder moving when you shake the shell , even at 77 grains. I think with Barnes 500 there would be quite a bit more compression with the long shank on that bullet.

Next time I am home will make some 3031 loads, maybe some 4064 , but I think the 4064 I will run into issues with Barnes .

Any other tips always welcome!!

Craig
 

bruce moulds

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sounds like re15 is ideal.
a little compression is good.
varget has a similar burn rate so might be worth a try.
bruce.
 

machinistbutler

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Temps in Africa will be warmer , so velocity will be a bit higher. I noticed it with my 375, I had quite a bit higher impact at 100 vs where I was at practicing at home in well below freezing temps.

I do not know an ideal velocity for the aframes. I think 2150-2200 muzzle velocity should be fine. Recoil is comfortable , if I push it much more it may be a bit punishing. I have to hang on fairly good with my right hand or the trigger guard gives me a slap. I have some wicked tennis elbow right now, and strength in my right arm is suffering , so that may have something to do with it.
 

fourfive8

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The A Frames will do fine at the velocities you're looking at. No worries there. I like several powders for the Lott/Watts. Varget is certainly one and I've had good results with Benchmark and it gives extremely low velocities SDs-- which is always a sign of consistent internal ballistics. The issue wth Benchmark is it may not get you to 2200 fps at comfortable pressure under the 500 grainers because of it's burn rate ?? Just start low and work up and see how it acts. It has proven to be one of the best 458 WM powders. I haven't tried it with one of the 500 gr monolithics in the Lott/Watts, so I don't know the expected % case fill at normal bullet seating depth for one of those bullets at a normal load intensity level. I mention Benchmark because it is one of the overlooked powders you could try. Given the state of sketchy supply of all components, it would probably be worth a trial if you find some.

You mentioned temperature sensitivity. I have completely gone to Hodgdon Extreme powders for hunting loads because of that. Instead of trying to compensate for the difference between shooting at one temperature then hunting at another- figured I'd try to avoid the issue all together as much as possible. At the upper end for any cartridge, if you develop with temperature sensitive powders in cold temps, you will most certainly realize an increase in pressure at higher temps- sometimes an "inconvenient" increase of pressure. :)
 

bruce moulds

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benchmark (known in oz as benchmark2) has proven to have a burning rate almost identical to 3031 in calibres i have used it in, which does not include the 458 lott.
extrapolating that to some of the data, it might bee a little fast for heavy bullets and fastest speeds.
it might well be suited to lighter bullets than varget/re15 burning rate, which seem better for 500 gn for the same pressure.
varget will be more temp stable than re15.
bruce.
 

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