458 Lott ate my QD Warne rings

Nhoro

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In my opinion, primary force that keeps a scope in place is friction. The secondary method is that recoil lug. Why do I say this ? Unless the lug is precisely machined to fit into that recess, it would allow forward or backward movement, or both. That will shift your zero. Same with screws on a screw on mount. They can and will supply a shear strength to your mounting system but their main purpose is to pull the two surfaces together and create friction.

So how do we create more friction ? So make sure there is no oil on the mating surfaces. Furthermore,the friction will depend on how closely the surfaces match and how tightly they are torqued together. Lastly, check if the bottom of the wedges are bottoming out in the groove. If they are, the only surface touching is the corner or tip of the wedge see pic (sorry it is upside down !) With screw on mounts, use loctite to increase friction and properly bed the lug and also check if your mating surfaces match. I dont think you can lap these surfaces but you can definately remove some material from the bottom if your wedges are bottoming out.

IMG_6750.JPG
 
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fourfive8

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I think I see what you are indicating in the example as a possible way to increase the friction component of recoil resistance. Obviously friction is what keeps a scope secure in rings during recoil. I believe that may help and would require close inspection of the mating surfaces to see if modification would increase the friction purchase in those areas of contact. And yes, oil or grease should be removed from mating surfaces to maximize friction. Both friction and dead block contact can play a role in secure scope mounting. Any movement during the recoil event or the vibration associated with it can cause (or reveal) failure in the system. Once failed, it will not likely self correct or stabilize. Even in those systems with a dead block stop, if there is movement during recoil that allows a kinetic event (mass striking mass) during recoil, chances are that variable movement will continue as recoil vibration happens in more than one axis and a rebound component is always present in a kinetic event.
 

Nhoro

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I think the mount to rifle connection is also based largely on friction. The dead stop or a lug mating to a groove on the rifle will not be precisely fitted. There will always be a tolerance allowed on both parts, to allow them to fit easily. So dead stop will work in only one direction when the mounts have moved under recoil to their final rest. If recoil shakes the scope back and forward eg in a springer airgun-then the scope will move foreward and back within the gap between mount and reciever. Maybe 0.5 mm or more.
 

machinistbutler

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Just got word the new rings from Warne have arrived at my house! Very pleased how fast they got them to me , especially during this damned pandemic.

I am out in the bush for a few more days, will set it up on the Lott when I get home. I am going to try and figure out a way to accurately torque the rings instead of just relying on finger pressure.

The old Zeiss conquest has been working great on the 416 . It has been good fun playing with that one in the meantime.

Will post an update if I figure out how to torque it, and how it holds up to recoil this time around!

I won't be using a lead sled, not that there is anything wrong with that..... :K Moon:
 
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WAB

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Excellent, good luck and keep us posted!
 

Forrest Halley

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Just got word the new rings from Warne have arrived at my house! Very pleased how fast they got them to me , especially during this damned pandemic.

I am out in the bush for a few more days, will set it up on the Lott when I get home. I am going to try and figure out a way to accurately torque the rings instead of just relying on finger pressure.

The old Zeiss conquest has been working great on the 416 . It has been good fun playing with that one in the meantime.

Will post an update if I figure out how to torque it, and how it holds up to recoil this time around!

I won't be using a lead sled, not that there is anything wrong with that..... :K Moon:
Set the rifle and the mounts in the sun and torque them down with the middle of the thumb not the tip and wrap my fingers under the rifle and squeeze it tight until it makes a 90° alignment. As everything cools down it should be plenty tight. Make sure that everything is slid forward against any stops if there are any on the CZ. Also insure the rings are tightened to the base and then the scope otherwise they are not evenly bearing the recoil load.
 

machinistbutler

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Set the rifle and the mounts in the sun and torque them down with the middle of the thumb not the tip and wrap my fingers under the rifle and squeeze it tight until it makes a 90° alignment. As everything cools down it should be plenty tight. Make sure that everything is slid forward against any stops if there are any on the CZ. Also insure the rings are tightened to the base and then the scope otherwise they are not evenly bearing the recoil load.
It is minus 15 celcius here and snowing, no nice sunshine and warm temps till spring.
 

Forrest Halley

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Sweet Jesus what do you do?! There is a good chance you could hunt from work.
 

machinistbutler

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Sweet Jesus what do you do?! There is a good chance you could hunt from work.
Lol yes. I do reforestation work in Alberta Canada, fairly close to the Rockies. I have heavy equipment that prepares the ground for the next year's tree plant. Always have a rifle next to me as there are usually bears, wolves and the odd mountain lion around. Have my 416 Rigby in the cab right next to me in this picture. I carry the quad on the front of my machine moving between blocks as it would be a long walk without it to get back to my truck.

I do get into some fantastic whitetail areas, and I took a nice vid a couple days ago of a bull moose chasing two cow moose less than a hundred yards from my machine. It is good fun .

Still haven't figured out what I want to do when I grow up .
 

Forrest Halley

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Lol yes. I do reforestation work in Alberta Canada, fairly close to the Rockies. I have heavy equipment that prepares the ground for the next year's tree plant. Always have a rifle next to me as there are usually bears, wolves and the odd mountain lion around. Have my 416 Rigby in the cab right next to me in this picture. I carry the quad on the front of my machine moving between blocks as it would be a long walk without it to get back to my truck.

I do get into some fantastic whitetail areas, and I took a nice vid a couple days ago of a bull moose chasing two cow moose less than a hundred yards from my machine. It is good fun .

Still haven't figured out what I want to do when I grow up .
They should have take a random American to work day there. I'd volunteer for that program.
 

machinistbutler

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I made it home from the bush last night. Took old rings off the razor, degreased everything, and installed it . Making sure that the thumb levers are tight. If they are too tight in the field to get them off I can give them a whack with my knife butt or something. I also am going to try running with two front rings
PXL_20201028_222334002.jpg
PXL_20201028_222248798.jpg
and see how it works and functions.

If it has any interference with ejection, which I don't think it will, I will machine the part that protrudes over the action opening.

Used a Flexible flange sealant between the rings and the scope. It is a type of gasket eliminator I have used on heavy equipment differential housings .

If it moves now I will get a lighter scope..


Thanks to Warne Rings service department for sending out a new set very fast. I explained what had went on and sent pics of the damage. They said it shouldn't have happened and were beyond great to deal with.

Craig
 

Forrest Halley

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Aren't you supposed to point the handles fore and aft? I use my QD rings the opposite way so they don't impede ejection. Knobs on the left hand side.
 

machinistbutler

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I have used QD rings for a long time, I point them up, out of my way, never had any ejection issues, except with a push feed where a blown primer compressed the plunger spring and plunger in the bolt. Would never have that problem on a 550.
 

Forrest Halley

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Well I point mine fore and aft and I haven't had a scope ring eaten yet...smirk
 

fourfive8

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That overhanging ring base shouldn't interfere with ejection. The only way it would is if the cartridge base was hitting the ejector "early" in the back stroke and the case was flipping out early. If it does easy enough to grind or file a little off the corner. I would be more mindful about the mounts and scope being in the way for "blind" re-loading under stress.

I'd think three rings should hold against recoil. I'm betting it does. If not, something is not right with that ring/mount design.
 

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I made it home from the bush last night. Took old rings off the razor, degreased everything, and installed it . Making sure that the thumb levers are tight. If they are too tight in the field to get them off I can give them a whack with my knife butt or something. I also am going to try running with two front rings View attachment 373603View attachment 373604and see how it works and functions.

If it has any interference with ejection, which I don't think it will, I will machine the part that protrudes over the action opening.

Used a Flexible flange sealant between the rings and the scope. It is a type of gasket eliminator I have used on heavy equipment differential housings .

If it moves now I will get a lighter scope..


Thanks to Warne Rings service department for sending out a new set very fast. I explained what had went on and sent pics of the damage. They said it shouldn't have happened and were beyond great to deal with.

Craig
Wow - Three rings? I would suggest Talley's. And just two of them.
Custom .404 Jeffery by Craig Libhart

These have been on my .404 for years and through hundreds of rounds. And though this is a custom rifle, the action is a CZ.
 

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