bassasdaindia
AH elite
some photos taken with my cell phone of the .450
Majoor.
Majoor.
Last edited:
@bassasdaindia thank you for sharing the pictures. Beautiful rifle.
I was curious as to the brand of rifle your .458 Lott is, and how do the .458WM cycle through it and the accuracy with the .458WM? Thanks!458vs 460
Talked to a gentleman who went to Africa with a 460 and was advised to download the cartridge due to fear of TOO much penetration and the risk involved to other cape buffalo...bullets do not pass straight thru and can take some pretty radical paths. I own a 458Lott but almost excusively shoot 458 WM ammo thru it.......A-square makes some great round for it...I personally LOVE shooting my 470 Capstick.....this cartridge will fit a 458/375 size action and give you 6000+me with 500 grain bullets at max specs......I download it with soft points to deer level specs......all you need is a new barrell on most magnum actions......basically a 470 NE bolt action..........gotta love that
460 is generally not appreciated because often the owner that shows up with it cannot shoot it well, and either flinches, or is busy working on a world-class flinch. Coupled with many 460 rifles coming with brakes, which are not PH pleasers either.Among Professional Hunters or Veteran African Hunters , l see two calibers which are LOATHED and l never really understood why .
One would be the .460 Weatherby Magnum.
The other would be the .425 Westley Richards Magnum .
I had a chance to fire a .460 Weatherby a friend of mine used to own. It's a beast in terms of RAW power . The .425 WR , l have never used . But a guy in Australia who l hunted with , has one on an Enfield action . He would use handloads and Woodleigh 410 grain full metal jacket round nose solids at 2150 fps.
Desperatezulu , thank you for your insighful response. Coincidentally enough , l was having a chat with my friend today ( the one who lives in Australia and owns a .425 WR ) . We talked for a while about the .425 WR. Apparently , when Westley Richards first introduced this rifle during the golden age of hunting , the rifle was regulated for 2350 fps velocity. The rifles which Westley Richards makes now are regulated for a lower 2150 fps velocity. Also , there is only ONE brand who makes loaded ammunition for this Calibre : Kynoch. And Kynoch only makes soft nosed ammunition for the .425 Westley Richards. If you want solids ( which is necessary for Elephant and occasionally Buffalo ) , then your only option is to hand load , using Woodleigh 410 grain FMJ round nose bullets. According to Woodleigh , these 410 grain round nose fmj bullets should be loaded to a maximum velocity of 2150 .460 is generally not appreciated because often the owner that shows up with it cannot shoot it well, and either flinches, or is busy working on a world-class flinch. Coupled with many 460 rifles coming with brakes, which are not PH pleasers either.
The cliché is that 460s are bought by wealthy but clueless hunters who want the biggest cannon money can buy for their DG hunt...and arrive never having practiced with the gun and discover they can't shoot worth a damn with it.
Never heard of anyone being too critical about the 425WR - the old feeding BS stories aside. I would think any PH would be happy to guide a hunter using a 425 that could shoot it well. No doubts about its performance on DG.
As the typical advice goes - the hunter should bring the biggest caliber that he can comfortably shoot WELL with, and have it loaded with decent/premium bullets. I think the caliber choice is secondary to this.
Daga Boy , l agree with almost everything you say. I have fired a .460 Weatherby Mark V one day 3 times. Recoil is pretty severe but not UNBEARABLE ( to me anyway , but the gun had a muzzle brake ). A buddy of mine here in Texas , used to have one and took a brown bear with it. Eventually he swapped it for a .458 Lott. To me , the recoil of the gun ( while harsh ) wasn't the main thing l disliked about it. I noticed that the Weatherby Mark V had a habit of jarring the magazine floor plate open almost every time a shot was fired , dumping the 3 remaining cartridges onto the shooters feet. This happened once when we were shooting feral hogs . If it happened while he was shooting at elephant or buffalo , he would probably die .I do not know anyone who uses a 460 Weatherby and would not even consider one. Just pick one up and you will understand why. Its a massive rifle and has to be in order to (semi) tame the recoil. I once met someone who was selling his after one hunt. He shot an elephant. After the first shot it apparently just sort of stood around. He eventually shot it about ten times before it eventually fell over. He told me that from about the third shot he got a "white out" every time he pulled the trigger, that his nose started bleeding after about the sixth shot and that he was dazed and disoriented and had a sever headache after the episode (concussion). One is simply better off using a less severe calibre and getting a bit closer if needs be.
425WR was not popular because of feeding problems - apparently only on cheaper rifles. The calibre itself performs well though and would probably be popular if someone were to introduce it as a standard model in an affordable rifle. I have actually been tossing about the idea of building a .423 wildcat using a .458WM case. I imagine that performance would be similar to a .416 Taylor, but probably with a bit more velocity and obviously a bigger(which is excellent) permanent wound channel. the KO factor would also be a bit higher. Just a thought at this stage.
After reading a lot of your responses to many African rifle subjects, I take it you don't care for the magnum actioned rifle. But, would you know the difference between a CZ-ZKK602 and a CZ550? Also, would you prefer say a .416 Ruger rifle in a shorter, lighter rifle? Thanks!They are also a lot cheaper to build as they dont require magnum length actions
Here , Daga Boy. I have catalogue pictures of the original ZKK Series.The CZ550 long version is the modern version of the old ZKK602. Basically the same ting except that the 602 has a straight trigger whereas the 550 has a normal curved trigger. (Both have the push forward set feature which is popular in Europe). I don't think the 602's came with the Bavarian stock option; however I haven't seen a 602 with a factory stock for a long time so can't be certain.
Magnum length actions make for rather cumbersome rifles, which is not ideal for close up work , especially in thick bush. What you really want for a back up rifle is something handy which points like a shotgun as you frequently won't have time to aim deliberately. The rifle should also be as short as reasonably possible to avoid snagging on bushes.
The problem can be addressed to an extent)by shortening the barrel , and many people do this to their .375H&H's. .458 Lotts or 450 Rigbys; but the package is still not as handy as one based on a standard length action (with similar barrel length).
The .458 Sabi (based on the 500 Jeffrey cartridge) is a good option for someone wanting a really good back up/DG bolt action rifle in .458 cal. So is the (.404 based) .458 African. These rounds are in the same performance category as the A square 460 short but brass is easier to obtain or form as the parent cases are common.
.416 Ruger is gaining in acceptance here. The guide gun in particular is very nice for the bush; however there is a difference between a 400grn .416 projectile and a 500 or 550grn .458 projectile going at similar speeds. .416 is a better allrounder, but bigger = better when things get close up and personal.
Talking "close", I get the impression from these threads that many "foreign" hunters do not appreciate just how close "close" can be. With the exception of elephant, which may attack from a quite a distance, a charge is typically a less than 20m affair, and even then you may only be able to see the animal when it is virtually on top of you. In fact hunters have been seriously injured and even killed by "dead" animals which have collapsed on them.
I remember seeing some 602s in .404 Jeffery. But looking at these ads , it hit me now that they must have been rebarrel jobs like my .350 Rigby Magnum ZKK602Thanks. As I remembered - straight top comb rather than humped.
My own 602 is now sporting a 550 humpback stock with double cross bolts, the synthetic stock having collapsed.
That is a interesting assertion about magnum length action being unsuitable for a stopping rifle. It will come to some surprise to several generations of professional hunters who protected life and limb with single and double square bridge magnum mauser rifles. I will admit, most rifles based on the big CZ actions can be anything but elegant, but a Rigby or Heym or modern Mauser can be both elegance and pointability personified - particularly if properly stocked and fitted to the owner. And of course if you really want an instinctive package as a stopping rifle, then a quality double is even a better choice. Finally, most clients - foreign or local - are typically ill served by true stopping rifles, whether in a well accepted classic cartridges or the current wave of short wildcats. His job is to get that first bullet exactly where it matters.The CZ550 long version is the modern version of the old ZKK602. Basically the same ting except that the 602 has a straight trigger whereas the 550 has a normal curved trigger. (Both have the push forward set feature which is popular in Europe). I don't think the 602's came with the Bavarian stock option; however I haven't seen a 602 with a factory stock for a long time so can't be certain.
Magnum length actions make for rather cumbersome rifles, which is not ideal for close up work , especially in thick bush. What you really want for a back up rifle is something handy which points like a shotgun as you frequently won't have time to aim deliberately. The rifle should also be as short as reasonably possible to avoid snagging on bushes.
The problem can be addressed to an extent)by shortening the barrel , and many people do this to their .375H&H's. .458 Lotts or 450 Rigbys; but the package is still not as handy as one based on a standard length action (with similar barrel length).
The .458 Sabi (based on the 500 Jeffrey cartridge) is a good option for someone wanting a really good back up/DG bolt action rifle in .458 cal. So is the (.404 based) .458 African. These rounds are in the same performance category as the A square 460 short but brass is easier to obtain or form as the parent cases are common.
.416 Ruger is gaining in acceptance here. The guide gun in particular is very nice for the bush; however there is a difference between a 400grn .416 projectile and a 500 or 550grn .458 projectile going at similar speeds. .416 is a better allrounder, but bigger = better when things get close up and personal.
Talking "close", I get the impression from these threads that many "foreign" hunters do not appreciate just how close "close" can be. With the exception of elephant, which may attack from a quite a distance, a charge is typically a less than 20m affair, and even then you may only be able to see the animal when it is virtually on top of you. In fact hunters have been seriously injured and even killed by "dead" animals which have collapsed on them.