450/400 or 470 Nitro express

Philip Glass

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH legend
Joined
Feb 26, 2015
Messages
3,314
Reaction score
5,219
Location
Texas
Website
www.dorper.net
Media
81
Articles
12
Hunting reports
Africa
8
USA/Canada
2
Asia/M.East
2
Member of
NRA, Life SCI, Life DSC, Life EWA
Hunted
RSA, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Cameroon, Mongolia, Kyrgyzstan, Austria, Australia, TX, NM
Hello Everyone,
First thank you all for all the great information that is being offered here. I have learned a lot and continue to learn more every time I visit this forum. I do have some experience in using a 12 bore paradox (my grandpas) some English make but pretty darn powerful. He used to hunt Royal Bengal tigers back in the day in India with it.

Of late i have been fascinated to own a double. I wish to go to Africa in the next couple of years and as such in a quest for a good double. My sights are on a Heym 470 but of late I see lot of good reviews/feedback from experienced hunters on the 450/400 cartidge. I'm a novice at best so to say on calibers and difficult to understand all the nuances. I also plan to use the rifle for some fun trips in the US. Please help me decide.
Your final thought would direct you to the 450/400 but if after DG in Africa the .470 may be a better choice. The .470 is lots of recoil to handle and you should shoot some doubles before buying. Like you mentioned the 450/400 is getting lots of press lately.
Philip
 

Tokoloshe Safaris

Sponsor
Since 2017
AH fanatic
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
674
Reaction score
1,007
Location
Milibizi, Zimbabwe
Website
www.tokoloshesafaris.com
Media
74
Articles
1
Member of
Life Member Safari International
Hunted
Zimbabwe, South Africa, Tanzania
Your final thought would direct you to the 450/400 but if after DG in Africa the .470 may be a better choice. The .470 is lots of recoil to handle and you should shoot some doubles before buying. Like you mentioned the 450/400 is getting lots of press lately.
Philip
My first double was a George Gibbs .450/400 3 1/4. I loved that rifle scary accurate and I never noticed recoil, unfortunately I had to sell it to buy a identical except for weight George Gibbs in .470, again very accurate, but you do notice the recoil, but it works. My wife shoots a Heym 88B .450/400 and finds the recoil very manageable. Now to throw something else into the mix we had a client this year who was shooting a Vernay Carron .450/400 3" OVER AND UNDER!!! When he came out of his tent the first morning it was LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT! It was trim, slim extremely well balanced just a magnificent piece of work. Accurate his 80 meter heart shot on his grandfather of all bushbucks proved how accurate it is. Forget about the advantage of a side by side over a over and under I guarantee you, you can load this rifle as fast as any side by side (your not sitting in a duck blind). You probably would not need to reload as the first bullet is going to go where it was supposed to go! Unfortunately John M. left Zimbabwe with that rifle! Damn!
 

Pondoro

AH fanatic
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
814
Reaction score
993
Media
80
Articles
1
Hunted
Norway, Sweden, Namibia and Botswana
Perhaps we can sum it up and say that if elephant is not to be pursued, the 450/400 3" and 3 1/4 is plenty enough..?
 

Johann Muller

AH member
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
17
Reaction score
27
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SA Hunters Assoc. PHASA
Hunted
RSA, Zim Moz.
I own a 500 3" NE Heym. I use it for backup on Big 5 . It also took a while for me to decide . 500 is a lot of gun and I think in your case the 450/400 would be fine for anything on the planet. Remember its not the size of the gun but rather shot placement. 450/400 was Pondoro Taylor's favourite double. Practise with that double. Handling is totally different to bolts. I checked all manufacturers, opting for a new gun as I can't afford English doubles and finally decided on the Hey...
Enjoy
 

4 Bore

AH senior member
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Messages
64
Reaction score
28
Media
3
Why don't you compromise and choose the Caliber that's right between the .450/400 NE and the .470 NE : The .450 Nitro Express ? The only double rifle l own is a Vintage .450 Nitro Express Double Made by John Rigby . It is a beautiful weapon and l shoot Hornady Dangerous Game Solids for the Thick skinned beasts and Hornady Dangerous Game eXpanding bullets for the lighter game. Mine has brought down Cape Buffalo ( including a charging one ) , Deer sized game and even the smaller antelope with unrivalled knockdown power . Currently , the only makers l know who make rifles in .450 NE are Sabatti ( but l hear that their quality is not consistent ) , Anderson Wheeler ( But l don't know if they are taking new orders anymore ) and an American Gun Maker by the name of Mr. Butch Searcy. If you can get your hands on a .450 NE , go for it. The recoil is less than a.470 NE , but the stopping power is a little more than a .450/400.

If , however , you are adamant to choose between the two calibers that you have mentioned , then l would choose the .450/400 if you want less recoil and were simply going to shoot the occasional elephant or cape buffalo . If you would be shooting lots of thick skinned game , l would recommend the .470 NE. Most Professional Humters in Africa who use Double rifles , opt for the .470 NE.
Hope this helps
 

cal pappas

Contributor
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
279
Reaction score
634
Media
70
Hunting reports
Africa
4
How about a vintage double rather than a new one? For the same money you can have history and workmanship that is not equalled by anyone today.
Cal
PS. As a side bar, I have shot plenty of plains game and a moose with my .600 nitro from 1914. Come to the AK double shoot on May 4 and try them all--350 to 4-bore!
 

WAB

AH legend
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
2,019
Reaction score
4,080
Location
Alabama
Media
84
Hunting reports
Africa
5
USA/Canada
1
Member of
DSC, NRA, SCI
Hunted
Zambia, Botswana, Mozambique, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Scotland, England, Canada, Alaska, Ireland
Great point. If I ever buy a double it will be a vintage double. A solid Birmingham boxlock in 450/400 or 470 with 26” tubes and some stories to tell!
 

cal pappas

Contributor
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
279
Reaction score
634
Media
70
Hunting reports
Africa
4
WAB:
When you are ready for a double, email me as I ussually have one or two from my collection. I'm not a dealer, I just thin out my safe at times. I'm at <pappas@mtaonline.net> and don't advertise or put much on the internet. At present I have a few bpe doubles and one nor two nitro doubles for sale.
Cal
 

WAB

AH legend
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
2,019
Reaction score
4,080
Location
Alabama
Media
84
Hunting reports
Africa
5
USA/Canada
1
Member of
DSC, NRA, SCI
Hunted
Zambia, Botswana, Mozambique, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Scotland, England, Canada, Alaska, Ireland
Will do Cal. I take it you are in the Anchorage area as your shooting at Birchwood. I’ve popped a lot of caps at that range.
 

cal pappas

Contributor
AH enthusiast
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
279
Reaction score
634
Media
70
Hunting reports
Africa
4
WAB:
May 4 is the double shoot, please come by if you can and shoot 40-50+ doubles.
Cal
 

Bullhunter

AH enthusiast
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
280
Reaction score
294
Media
22
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
Different nature, sport and shooting organisations
Currently , the only makers l know who make rifles in .450 NE are Sabatti.
No, Heym make them also. (And al of the big english manufactures on Special orders also.)
Ivan Carters famous double is in this caliber too.

If you can get your hands on a .450 NE , go for it. The recoil is less than a.470 NE , but the stopping power is a little more than a .450/400.
I have and had doubles in all calibers.
So I can say: This statement is correct.
And: Hornady make this caliber also, so you get - maybe not the best, but "cheap" - amo.

Best wishes and an happy new year 2019 to all of you.
Probs to Cal and Lon, they are great guys and man-by-word.
 

mdwest

AH elite
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
2,761
Location
DFW
Media
35
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
2
Mex/S.Amer
1
Member of
DSC Life Member, NRA Life Member
Hunted
USA, South Africa, Argentina, Peru
A VC O/U in 450/400 3" just popped up on GB a couple of days ago.. Nice looking rifle (although Im not a fan of the appearance of the mount and red dot.. even though I admit they are both quality and probably work excellently...)..

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/792654309
 

Attachments

WAB

AH legend
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
2,019
Reaction score
4,080
Location
Alabama
Media
84
Hunting reports
Africa
5
USA/Canada
1
Member of
DSC, NRA, SCI
Hunted
Zambia, Botswana, Mozambique, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Scotland, England, Canada, Alaska, Ireland
WAB:
May 4 is the double shoot, please come by if you can and shoot 40-50+ doubles.
Cal
Would love to Cal but we don't live in AK anymore. Bill
 

Tokoloshe Safaris

Sponsor
Since 2017
AH fanatic
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
674
Reaction score
1,007
Location
Milibizi, Zimbabwe
Website
www.tokoloshesafaris.com
Media
74
Articles
1
Member of
Life Member Safari International
Hunted
Zimbabwe, South Africa, Tanzania
@Bullhunter VC currently makes a 450NE.

@Tokoloshe Safaris I also have a VC O/U 450/400 that I used for my Roan and the hippo on my avatar and my PH would have liked to see it stay in his camp too!
Like? Hell I would have loved to see that VC .450-400 stay in camp! Still plotting!
 

AZDAVE

AH elite
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
1,692
Reaction score
2,255
Media
160
Hunting reports
Africa
3
Hunted
South Africa, Alaska,lower 48
@Tokoloshe Safaris :A Voodoo: I do believe I see a plan forming:) VC makes a nice double whether it is SxS or O/U.
 

Jeff 907

AH veteran
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
Messages
133
Reaction score
96
Location
Wasilla
Media
6
Hunted
USA, Namibia
I too would like to purchase a double. They've always facinated me, but the price is usually too much for my budget. I saw this one on Cabela's web site. I don't know anything about doubles other than H&H are more than most homes. I'm on the books for a buffalo next May in SA and would love to use a double and your advice in this post has been most helpful. Thanks.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/a-duval-arms-double-rifle-450-400-nitro-express/2403505.uts?Ntk=GunLibrary&searchPath=/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&Ntk=GunLibrary&Ntt=double&x=0&y=0&Ntt=double
 

Attachments

Last edited by a moderator:

mdwest

AH elite
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
2,761
Location
DFW
Media
35
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
2
Mex/S.Amer
1
Member of
DSC Life Member, NRA Life Member
Hunted
USA, South Africa, Argentina, Peru

Attachments

Last edited by a moderator:

Jeff 907

AH veteran
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
Messages
133
Reaction score
96
Location
Wasilla
Media
6
Hunted
USA, Namibia
I saw that one, but am concerned it was one. Was it just the Cabelas ones that were walled out?
 

Dutch44

AH member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
22
Reaction score
14
Location
Missouri
Member of
NRA Life Member 1978, ASSRA Member
Hunted
Zim 2012 with Richie Schultz and CMS, Tanzania 2008 with Paul Jelonek
I'd pass on the Cabela's listed 450-400 with "ok bores but some pitting noticed". There are better choices out there. Patience and knowledge are you most valuable tools in choosing.
 
 

 

 

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Enjoy the bush with Respect
20 day hunt in May 2022 with Zana Botes hard part now starting the wait
Better a fool on his own than a wise man at someone else's discretion
... F. Nietzsche
perry madl wrote on Ignatius of Antioch's profile.
Is your double still available?
I am interested in Safari Animal Paintings
 
Top