450/400 NE load data?

matt85

AH legend
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
2,662
Reaction score
1,951
Location
WA, USA
Media
28
Hunted
USA, South Africa, and Namibia
so far the only load data I can find for the 450/400 NE cartridge is in my Hornady book and the info is pretty limited in there.

does any one have any load data for the 450/400 NE cartridge? pet loads would be welcome as well!

the gun im looking at is regulated to the hornady DGX/DGS cartridge but im hoping to imitate it with Woodleigh bullets (i do not trust hornady DGX bullets).

thanks
-matt
 

Uintaelkhunter

AH enthusiast
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
299
Reaction score
259
Location
Utah
Media
76
Hunting reports
Africa
4
Member of
SCI
Hunted
RSA,Mozambique,Zim,USA,Asia
Matt if your looking at a double get graem wrights book shooting the British double it has load data but more important it explains how to work up loads and regulate for a double. I have found no other book for double rifle load data to work like this.

Each double is a little different and if it was regulated with hornady it may or may not shoot with the same load with woodleigh bullets in my experience my double shoots the same with ether but my load will change a bit from colder to warmer temps so I have a few loads that regulate for both
 

AkMike

AH fanatic
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
812
Reaction score
144
Location
Anchorage
Media
37
Member of
NRA-Life ASSRA DRSS
+1 on Graeme Wrights Book! it''ll have what you need to load and understand a DR.
 

hunteratheart

AH member
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Messages
47
Reaction score
6
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
DRSS,NAHC
Hunted
South Africa, Zimbabwe
Matt,
I use 77gr of IMR4831 and a CCI 250 primer for 400 gr DGS/DGX ( mimics factory loads). I use 78gr of IMR4831 and a CCI 250 primer for my 400 gr Dead Tough Softs.
Steve
 

hunteratheart

AH member
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Messages
47
Reaction score
6
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
DRSS,NAHC
Hunted
South Africa, Zimbabwe
P.S. DGX/DGS are cheap enough for practice and the loads above are what I use in my double.
 

matt85

AH legend
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
2,662
Reaction score
1,951
Location
WA, USA
Media
28
Hunted
USA, South Africa, and Namibia
thanks hunteratheart. could you tell me a little more about the solids you use?

side note: i personally don't like the DGX bullet. its the year 2014 and we shouldn't be using non-bonded soft point bullets on dangerous game. the DGX is probably fine for hogs, elk, moose, and other non-dangerous game but i don't see it holding together as well as a bonded bullet. both Woodleigh and Swift manufacture a bonded .410 400gr bullet, either of which would be far superior to the DGX.

-matt
 

hunteratheart

AH member
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Messages
47
Reaction score
6
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
DRSS,NAHC
Hunted
South Africa, Zimbabwe
Solids are straight out DGS. Haven't found need to change them out. DGX are obviously a different story.
 

huntsolo101

AH senior member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
82
Reaction score
33
Media
35
Hunting reports
Africa
3
Member of
SCI , NRA, Wisconsin Bowhunters, SCI Wisconsin Chapter,
Hunted
usa, canada, south africa, namibia
I use 400 grain woodleigh bullets , 72.5 grains of imr4007 ssc , 215m primers. Out of my ruger one the velocity is 2025. At 100 yards I get 3 shot groups the size of my thumbnail. I buy my bullets from huntington's. I found some cases online by doing many searches of the box # 86934. I bought the 4 boxes I found.
 

matt85

AH legend
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
2,662
Reaction score
1,951
Location
WA, USA
Media
28
Hunted
USA, South Africa, and Namibia
on the topic of cost, the Woodleigh 400gr bullets are only slightly more expensive then Hornady 400gr bullets (an extra $10 per box).

between woodleigh and swift i would pick swift for DG. in the end though it will depend on what i can get to shoot well. if the only bullet i can get to shoot well is the hornady DGX then ill be forced to use them.

-matt
 

matt85

AH legend
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
2,662
Reaction score
1,951
Location
WA, USA
Media
28
Hunted
USA, South Africa, and Namibia
my copy of "shooting the british double rifle" showed up today and has already proved very informative. I will spend more time reading threw the book when I find more free time.

thank you
-matt
 

Steve Steyr

AH veteran
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
142
Reaction score
78
Media
4
Also check on the website realguns.com. He does a good wring out on reloading the Ruger #1 in 450/400 3".
 

CTDolan

AH elite
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
1,460
Reaction score
1,381
Location
Minnesota
Media
18
Articles
1
Hornady4504003loaddata.JPG
 

CTDolan

AH elite
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
1,460
Reaction score
1,381
Location
Minnesota
Media
18
Articles
1
From: Powder Keg, R. Seyfreid, Handloader #230, August 2004

"Q: I am trying to get loading data for the .450-400 3-inch Nitro. I am shooting both cast bullets and 400-grain Woodleigh bullets in Bertram cases. I also need to know about the Dacron filler. Do I need it in the .400?"

A: There are two variations of the .450-.400 x 3-inch cartridge. The "trade" model had a thin (.040-inch) rim and normally used 60 grains of cordite with a 400-grain bullet. Jeffrey used a thick rim and only 55 grains of cordite. Either one likes the 1.19 multiplier of Reloder 15, with a Federal 215 primer as a duplicate to the original full-power loads. That is to say, 1.19 times the 55- or 60-grain cordite charge. Normally, you do not need Dacron in the .400s. However, if you experience any form of hangfire (this will probably be as minute as your thinking you can hear the hammer hit before ignition), add 3 grains of standard polyester pillow stuffing over the powder. This load is compatible with the Woodleigh softpoint bullet. If you use their solids, reduce the powder charge 2 grains.

For cast bullet shooting in the .400s, we discover a wonderful phenomena in cordite double rifles. Against all conventional wisdom, they will usually regulate perfectly with a very reduced load, by simply pretending they were black-powder rifles. Now we turn to the nitro-for-black-powder formula. The 3-inch case was not a black-powder round, but its 3¼-inch older brother was. It normally used 100 to 110 grains of black and 230- to 260-grain bullets. Hodgdon 4198 is the powder of choice. The formula is now 40 percent of the black powder weight.

Load with a standard Large Rifle (not magnum) primer and begin with 42 grains of 4198. The nitro-for-black loads must use Dacron; 10 grains will be correct, over the powder. Add a hard 230- to 260-grain, .41 Magnum pistol bullet and you will have a nice, friendly deer load. Most rifles regulate perfectly, although it is often necessary to use the 200-yard sight leaf to get correct elevation at 100 yards."

Note: In Miniature Black Powder Express Cartridges, Handloader #225, Seyfried states the Dacron must fill the case and not be tamped down on the powder as a wad.


From: Reloading the Nitro Express, R. Seyfreid, Handloader #202, December 1999

"Unlike the earlier black-powder rifles, most nitro rifles will have the service load stamped on the barrel flats as part of the proof marks. This usually specifies a maximum load of cordite and bullet weight. One usually encounters something like "cordite 70-bullet 480 max."

"Slug the bores and make chamber casts before you buy components. Finally be sure you are indeed working with a "full-cordite" rifle. Many unknowing or unscrupulous sellers call every British express rifle a "Nitro Express". If the barrels do not show the cordite charge in the proof marks, they are probably made for black powder."

"The correct powder for the nitros is also surprisingly simple. Most who are serious reloaders for the nitros have distilled the selection to one powder: Alliant Reloder 15. You will see and hear references to other powders; IMR-3031 and some of the very slow ones like 4831 have been used. In my experience IMR-3031 has a shrewish temperament in the big cases, demonstrating rapid pressure rises. The slow powders have blown the sides out of more than one set of fine double barrels. No one has a precise answer to "why?". Because it has happened, I treat the slow powders like the standard medical formula, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." Reply: "Do not do this!"

"Returning to our chosen fuel, RL-15, its use and perfection was invented by none less than Federal Cartridge for their own .470 Nitro cartridges. It is a mild-mannered, delightful powder that re-creates original ballistics, right across the spectrum from .450-400 to .600, using the same conversion formula. That is, multiply the original cordite charge by 1.19 to substitute RL-15. In almost every instance, caliber and rifle, the velocity, with the correct Woodleigh bullet, will be right in the Kynoch window. (It is a good idea to begin two grains below the calculated charge, just to be on the safe side.)"

"The one compromise with RL-15 is that it takes up less space in the cavernous cases than did the original spaghetti-like cordite. To obtain perfectly crisp ignition, one must add a small ball of Dacron (polyester) fiber filler. Most .40- and .45-caliber rounds want four or five grains, while the .470 and .500 use six or seven grains and the .577 and .600 take seven or eight. Loads without the filler can demonstrate minute, but disconcerting, hangfires. Those with fillers are crisp with uncannily uniform velocities."

.450/.400-3 inch - 60 grs. Cordite - 400-gr. bullet - 2125 fps - 71.4 grs. RL-15
.450/400-3¼ inch - 60 grs. Cordite - 400-gr. bullet - 2150 fps - 71.4 grs. RL-15
 

Steve Steyr

AH veteran
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
142
Reaction score
78
Media
4
Great info from a trusted source, Ross Seyfried. Thanks for taking the time to include all the info you did.
 

V.Veritas

AH veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Messages
112
Reaction score
99
Media
1
Articles
1
Hunted
Canada, Namibia, South Africa
Hi Matt85,

On what reloads have you settled for your 450/400 NE double in the end?
Have you tried by any chance 300gr SP Hornady intermidiate loads in your double?
 

larry4831

AH fanatic
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
527
Reaction score
353
Media
5
Member of
NRA
Art Alphons book " any shot you want " has load data for the 3 inch and 3 1/4 inch.
 

matt85

AH legend
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
2,662
Reaction score
1,951
Location
WA, USA
Media
28
Hunted
USA, South Africa, and Namibia
Hi Matt85,

On what reloads have you settled for your 450/400 NE double in the end?
Have you tried by any chance 300gr SP Hornady intermidiate loads in your double?

this is a VERY OLD thread, i do not own a 450-400 any more. when i did own the rifle i never tried anything but 400gr projectiles.

-matt
 

Forum statistics

Threads
35,519
Messages
662,621
Members
60,031
Latest member
MarcelaDoa
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Mule deer and Colorado elk seasons almost done! Hunters driving farm roads, looking for racks, their PH driving them along, I ask that you not pull into my drive. The buck behind me, on the boundary line of the GMU somehow knows. The hunter laughs, I would invite you in to see my Searcy rifles but social distancing prevails, darkness arrives and the buck slides away into secret tree grove...
Boyd Brooks wrote on Skinnersblade's profile.
Ellwood Epps has 1 box of 25-20 in stock. Look them up on the web. They are located in Orilla Ontario.
Lkhntr wrote on Warpig602's profile.
On the vx6 2-12 what does the zl2 stand for?

Thanks, Oliver
bowjijohn wrote on AfricaHunting.com's profile.
Many thanks for re formatting my article for the forum

I served my time in both the bush and during the bush war

I hope it did it justice

Education is where it is at - without it the wild places are history

You - sir - are well placed to make a difference

J
Good morning friends

i‘ve taken to heart a suggestion to tell my story about a lion hunt 37 years ago. ‘I don’t know, but am thinking there are site rules as to posting and file type. Three of the four posts (chapters?) are done, I took time away from here to write up the story. I have a couple of photos too.

also, I’m going to dissemble the rifles and see if Butch may have signed them. I’ll let you know.
 
Top