.450/400 NE, .404 Jeffery, .416 Rigby/Remington

postoak

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I was looking at the ballistics -- aren't these all about the same?

From Wikipedia:

.450/400 - 400 gr. at 2150 fps

.404 Jeffery - 450 gr. at 2150 fps

.416 Rigby - 450 gr. at 2150 fps

Not much difference there.
 

JPbowhunter

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The 450-400 and 404J are essentially the same cartridge. Former for doubles, latter for bolt guns. Same as 9.3x62 and 9.3x74r.

The rigby packs more punch loaded up to modern standards.
 

CoElkHunter

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The 450-400 and 404J are essentially the same cartridge. Former for doubles, latter for bolt guns. Same as 9.3x62 and 9.3x74r.

The rigby packs more punch loaded up to modern standards.
What would you think of a Ruger .416 in a CZ Safari Classic w/ a custom 24"barrel with brake and Cerakoted? I have a chance to buy one with the dies, some cases and Hornady bullets. I am reluctant cause its a .416 Ruger. I would greatly appreciate your opinion. Thanks!
 

postoak

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Is the brake removable? Because no way I would own a dangerous game rifle with a brake (if I intended to hunt dangerous game with it).
 

CoElkHunter

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Is the brake removable? Because no way I would own a dangerous game rifle with a brake (if I intended to hunt dangerous game with it).
Yes, it is removeable. This rifle is listed on Cabelas Gun Library for $1000.00. Take a look at it? It has a synthetic stock and is currently in West Virginia? Anyway, the gunsmith (Hickman Custom Rifles) who made the brake has a small shop here in Colorado Springs! My son has the same brake on his Remington .300WM. Small world! But, why wouldn't you hunt dangerous game with a brake? On a heavy caliber, the recoil is much less, allowing for quick follow up shots? I'm just curious?
 

CoElkHunter

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The 450-400 and 404J are essentially the same cartridge. Former for doubles, latter for bolt guns. Same as 9.3x62 and 9.3x74r.

The rigby packs more punch loaded up to modern standards.
BTW, I was reading a hunting article where the gentleman had built a .416 Taylor. I guess the cartridge is basically a necked down .458WM (no change in shoulder or anything else) or necked up .338WM. Intriguing for a guy with lots of .458 or .338 brass? I have LOTS of .338 brass! Still working on acquiring a .458! I guess same cartridge length as the .458 family of cartridges.
 

K E Johnson

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Yes, it is removeable. This rifle is listed on Cabelas Gun Library for $1000.00. Take a look at it? It has a synthetic stock and is currently in West Virginia? Anyway, the gunsmith (Hickman Custom Rifles) who made the brake has a small shop here in Colorado Springs! My son has the same brake on his Remington .300WM. Small world! But, why wouldn't you hunt dangerous game with a brake? On a heavy caliber, the recoil is much less, allowing for quick follow up shots? I'm just curious?

Because the additional noise and muzzle blast will not be appreciated by the PH and trackers with no hearing protection.
 

CoElkHunter

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Because the additional noise and muzzle blast will not be appreciated by the PH and trackers with no hearing protection.
Good point! Although there are a LOT of photos on this AH website with people using muzzle brakes amongst their African hunting parties? I could bring half a dozen sets of Sonic Ear Plugs with each their own strap to wear round the neck for the participants? I use these elk hunting with my non brake .338WM, and it doesn't hamper my hearing one bit. My hearing sucks anyway. Just a thought? But, I could have a thread protector made to use when the brake is removed. But, then I'm sure the .416's harsh recoil would be a factor once again?
Because the additional noise and muzzle blast will not be appreciated by the PH and trackers with no hearing protection.[/Q
 

postoak

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You won't notice the recoil when facing dangerous game. Against non-dangerous game the PHs and trackers can cover their ears before the shot but with dangerous game the PHs need to have their rifles in their hands. They also need to be able to hear the game moving so can't wear earplugs.
 

mdwest

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BTW, I was reading a hunting article where the gentleman had built a .416 Taylor. I guess the cartridge is basically a necked down .458WM (no change in shoulder or anything else) or necked up .338WM. Intriguing for a guy with lots of .458 or .338 brass? I have LOTS of .338 brass! Still working on acquiring a .458! I guess same cartridge length as the .458 family of cartridges.

I built a 416 Taylor on a 98 Mauser action last year... LOVE the cartridge..

416 Rem Mag performance out of a standard length action.. with recoil only minimally greater than my 375 H&H..

Brass is plentiful and affordable (I’ve necked down 100 458 Win Mag brass and have 50 pieces of properly headstamped Norma brass)... with 350gr bullets it shoots plenty flat out to 200 and with 400gr it can handle anything on 4 legs on the planet..

LOVE my 416 Taylor
 

CoElkHunter

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You won't notice the recoil when facing dangerous game. Against non-dangerous game the PHs and trackers can cover their ears before the shot but with dangerous game the PHs need to have their rifles in their hands. They also need to be able to hear the game moving so can't wear earplugs.
Another great point! Yeah, I don't notice the recoil of my .338 when shooting at an elk. The only thing dangerous where I hunt on public land are the other (stupid) hunters. I HAVE been shot towards (won't say at) a couple of times. Bet that doesn't happen while hunting in Africa? Except maybe for a mountain lion stalking me (black bears will USUALLY run away), which I wouldn't see or hear anyway, the wearing of earplugs isn't an issue here. Thanks!
 

CoElkHunter

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I built a 416 Taylor on a 98 Mauser action last year... LOVE the cartridge..

416 Rem Mag performance out of a standard length action.. with recoil only minimally greater than my 375 H&H..

Brass is plentiful and affordable (I’ve necked down 100 458 Win Mag brass and have 50 pieces of properly headstamped Norma brass)... with 350gr bullets it shoots plenty flat out to 200 and with 400gr it can handle anything on 4 legs on the planet..

LOVE my 416 Taylor
Yes, after reading this article about the .416 Taylor and the heavier recoil and longer actions needed in some of the other .416 cartridges, I'm going to check this out further. I know the .416 Ruger cartridge is compact, but the recoil I've read is stiff. The article stated one could neck up a .338WM to .416 and produce the .416 Taylor? I have lots of .338 brass and some .458WM brass, but not the .458 rifle YET. Thanks for the information and your input!
 

IvW

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But, then I'm sure the .416's harsh recoil would be a factor once again?

In which case you are better off stepping down to a caliber of which you can handle the recoil, especially if you intend hunting DG with the cartridge of choice...
 

CoElkHunter

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In which case you are better off stepping down to a caliber of which you can handle the recoil, especially if you intend hunting DG with the cartridge of choice...
Your right! I need to find someone(s) local here who owns some of these larger calibers so I can shoot them. My .338 and .375 H&H are fairly mild. Everyone may handle recoil a little different and I don't want to overdue it. I guess that's why here in the states one finds many "like new" heavy caliber rifles?
 

Shawn.54

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Your right! I need to find someone(s) local here who owns some of these larger calibers so I can shoot them. My .338 and .375 H&H are fairly mild. Everyone may handle recoil a little different and I don't want to overdue it. I guess that's why here in the states one finds many "like new" heavy caliber rifles?
Usually with a partial box of ammunition with 2-3 missing.
Shawn
 

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The 450/400 and .404 Jeffery are NOT the same cartridge. One is rimmed, true, and the other is not. They have different calibers and performance is different. It is often claimed that W. J. Jeffery developed the .404J as a "450/400 for repeaters (bolt guns)", maybe, but he made them rather different in several respects.
 

mdwest

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Yes, after reading this article about the .416 Taylor and the heavier recoil and longer actions needed in some of the other .416 cartridges, I'm going to check this out further. I know the .416 Ruger cartridge is compact, but the recoil I've read is stiff. The article stated one could neck up a .338WM to .416 and produce the .416 Taylor? I have lots of .338 brass and some .458WM brass, but not the .458 rifle YET. Thanks for the information and your input!

Necking 458 down is a good bit easier than necking 338 up IMO.. but either one works..

Necking up from 338 is a 2 or 3 step process from what I can tell.. whereas necking down from 458 is a single pull of the lever at the reloading bench.. run 458 brass up a 416 taylor full length sizing die and you are done..

Most people I have talked to that use 338, first neck up to 35.. then neck up to 375 then take the neck to 416.. going straight from 338 to 416 appears to be an issue (I have never necked up from 338 myself.. so I am strictly going off of what I have been told by a couple of other 416T owners and what I have read on some other forums that are more reloading focused)..
 

Nevada Mike

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.450/400 - 400 gr. at 2150 fps

.404 Jeffery - 450 gr. at 2150 fps

.416 Rigby - 450 gr. at 2150 fps

Not much difference there.

These are the 'traditional' loadings for these cartridges. With modern powders there is some variation possible. The .404J is often loaded with 400 grain bullets at muzzle velocities up to 2350 or 2400 fps. IFAIK, the 400 grain in solid or expanding is more or less standard. Woodleigh does make a 450 grain bullet for the .404J.
 

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These are the 'traditional' loadings for these cartridges. With modern powders there is some variation possible. The .404J is often loaded with 400 grain bullets at muzzle velocities up to 2350 or 2400 fps. IFAIK, the 400 grain in solid or expanding is more or less standard. Woodleigh does make a 450 grain bullet for the .404J.

Hardly traditional loads...... 450 grain for the 404 and 416 are relatively recent Norma loading.....
 

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