45-100 for Cape buffalo

[IRN-BRU]

Hi all new to forum,

would this cartridge be legal and safe to use or would the minimum be 45-120 ? In either a falling block or double rifle.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Welcome to AH. Good luck.

 

[IRN-BRU]

Welcome to AH. Good luck.

Thank you

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Hello , and welcome !
You've got interesting taste . I haven't heard of anyone mention the .45-100 in at least 10 years. I saw a Sharps rifle chambered for it in a Las Vegas gun show in 2008-2009. It was a bison cartridge in the market hunting days. I would NOT recommend it for Cape Buffalo. Cape Buffalo are MEAN brutes. I have shot 4 Australian Water Buffalo and while they are tough , a Cape Buffalo is Far Tougher.
It should be born in mind that back in the days of Commercial Bison hunting in the 1870s and 1880s , Buffalo hunters used to use a very cruel , but effective tactic to take down whole herds of Bison ( consisting mostly of cows and calves ). They would shoot a cow Bison in the lungs . The bison would go around blowing blood and staggering. Seeing the wounded bison blowing blood, all the other bisons in the herd would get maddened at the sight of blood and start ringing and goring the wounded bison to death. The shooters would keep hitting the other bisons in the lungs. In a few seconds , they would all be attacking each other and Goring each other to death. The last few left standing ( usually the few big bulls ), by then , were already too weakened after getting shot in the lungs . The Buffalo hunters easily finished them off with a couple of extra body shots. A .45-100 Black powder driven big Lead bullet , was just the right sort of thing for this kind of work.
Hardly ethical sport hunting . But it was a very different time. And their goals were to take whole herds down as fast as possible.
For cleanly taking a Much tougher CAPE BUFFALO , l would recommend a much better cartridge , like a .416 Rigby.
I am fairly sure it is legal in Africa , though.
If you are DETERMINED to go after a cape Buffalo with a .45-100 , then l would highly recommend stalking the animal carefully until you are in position of a a good broadside shot. Then , take both lungs . If you can't get a good broadside shot at the lungs , you may want to pass up the shot. And of course , get a Brave PH armed with a .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs Magnum to back you up !
All the best ,
Hoss Delgado

 

[IRN-BRU]

Thanks hoss Delgado do you any experience with the 45-120 ? Apparently it’s the American version of the 450 black powder express. I see Norma lists brass for it not sure about factory ammo.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Thanks hoss Delgado do you any experience with the 45-120 ? Apparently it’s the American version of the 450 black powder express. I see Norma lists brass for it not sure about factory ammo.

The issue is that it is a copy of the .450 BLACK POWDER EXPRESS. A weapon not meant for shooting dangerous thick skinned game. Hypothetically speaking , you COULD load a .45-120 with HOT LOADS to mirror the performance of a .450 Nitro Express . But since most .45-120 Caliber rifles are the older Sharps rifles or Remington Rolling Blocks , Operating at Black Powder pressures , you are doing something very ill advised .
A .45-120 would work very well for thin skinned game though

 

[IRN-BRU]

Thanks I’d be looking at building on a new modern falling block rifle and using modern powder.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Thanks I’d be looking at building on a new modern falling block rifle and using modern powder.

Keep us posted .
I would recommend a .500 Nitro Express

 

[AZDAVE]

If you use a modern falling block (like a ruger #1) and load to 55-60PSI levels. The 45-100 has very close to the same case capacity as a 458WM. The 45-120 is about the same capacity as a 450NE. You would need to First get buy in from your PH that you are hunting Cape Buff with a single shot!!!!! Can't stress that enough. The 450BPE rounds were used as deer and pig rounds in the day and not DG!!! so don't even consider using a 45/100 in it's original late 1800's ballistics....

I have a HR buffalo classic that I reemed out to a 45/100 from a 45/70 and have loaded it to 1850fps with a 500gr and in that light rifle it is very sporty on recoil and I would ever consider it for DG in Africa.

If you are looking for a falling block why don't you just consider a 450/400 or 450NE ruger #1 and hunt with it (With buy in from your PH)? Would be cheaper than building a custom one off, you could hunt your buff and several plains game for the difference in price.

I have built several custom rifles and understand the desire to but a unique piece and hunt with it. Good luck on your quest

 

[Hoss Delgado]

If you use a modern falling block (like a ruger #1) and load to 55-60PSI levels. The 45-100 has very close to the same case capacity as a 458WM. The 45-120 is about the same capacity as a 450NE. You would need to First get buy in from your PH that you are hunting Cape Buff with a single shot!!!!! Can't stress that enough. The 450BPE rounds were used as deer and pig rounds in the day and not DG!!! so don't even consider using a 45/100 in it's original late 1800's ballistics....

I have a HR buffalo classic that I reemed out to a 45/100 from a 45/70 and have loaded it to 1850fps with a 500gr and in that light rifle it is very sporty on recoil and I would ever consider it for DG in Africa.

If you are looking for a falling block why don't you just consider a 450/400 or 450NE ruger #1 and hunt with it (With buy in from your PH)? Would be cheaper than building a custom one off, you could hunt your buff and several plains game for the difference in price.

I have built several custom rifles and understand the desire to but a unique piece and hunt with it. Good luck on your quest

AZDAVE , after reading your comment , l realized that the OP wants to build a MODERN fall block in this caliber. In such a case , you are right. He COULD HOT LOAD the .45-120 to .450 NE levels and use them in his rifle safely . I thought he was talking about an existing Sharps rifle

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

"African shot placement" for buffalo:
- minimum calibre 9,3x62Mauser or 375H&H
- recommendet calibre any of the 400's, 416Rigby, 416Remington, 404Jeffery or 458Win.
For buffalo I use 404Jeffery and 9,3x62Mauser.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

"African shot placement" for buffalo:
- minimum calibre 9,3x62Mauser or 375H&H
- recommendet calibre any of the 400's, 416Rigby, 416Remington, 404Jeffery or 458Win.
For buffalo I use 404Jeffery and 9,3x62Mauser.

Don't forget the .505 Gibbs Magnum

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

My dream is double rifle in 450/400Jeffry and rifle in 500Jeffery.

 

[Red Leg]

Hi all new to forum,

would this cartridge be legal and safe to use or would the minimum be 45-120 ? In either a falling block or double rifle.

So it is all about the bullet and velocity. For instance, I think the 45/70 is a pretty awful choice for buffalo, but members here have used it successfully. The key is an action strong enough to get these older calibers up to adequate speed using a bullet capable of sure deep penetration on thick skin game.

Single shot is not an issue. PH's see lots of Ruger No 1's and more esoteric choices every season. With respect to the 45-120 specifically, original BP velocity would be borderline to assure adequate penetration on a buffalo - regardless of bullet weight and design. However, in a strong falling block, I suspect you can get a load in the .40+ cal nitro-express performance envelope. We have several real experts in these older cartridges on the forum who have actually used them in Africa and hopefully they will chime in.

 

[bruce moulds]

the subject of "45/100" deserves some discussion.
when sharps went to 45 cal, and dropped 44 cal except for special order, they quickly came up with 4 chamberings, all called 45/100.
these were 45/100/2.6", 45/100/2.4", and 45/100/2 7/8".
the 2.6" was designed for long range target shooting, but was quickly replaced by the 2.4" when it was discovered that the shorter case was more accurate.
this was because the bore diameter paper patch bullets had more bullet in the barrel and less in the case with the 2.4"
such ammunition was unsuitable for hunting as the bullets could easily fall out of the cases.
hence the 2 7/8" case with the same charge.
the 2 7/8" case was also loaded with a bullet about 200 gns express loading, and 110 gns powder, and in modern times is usually referred to as the 45/110 incorrectly.
modern practice of using grease groove bullets has relegated the 2.4" to a max of 90 gns powder due to deep seated bullets, and is now incorrectly called 45/90.
how people forget history!!!!! for convenience of marketing.
one would guess on this basis that the op is referring to the 2.6" case.
for reference, the 458 win mag is 2.5".
one would assume that the 2 7/8" case loaded to full potential with smokeless would have serious ballistics in a strong rifle.
do not use a cast ballard for this!
I have spoken to 2 guys about their trips to Africa, one using a 2 7/8" and the other using a 2 7/8" and then a 2.4" (45/70) with black powder.
their cast bullets did well, but they are both exceptional shots.
the thing with black powder is that velocities are low enough to not cause over expansion with normal loads and bullets hardened with tin.
the so called 45/120 has a 3 1/4" case, and there is some doubt as to whether it was ever offered by sharps.
in fact it could never have been used in the great bison carnage, as it came out too late.
modern day americans report full pass throughs on American bison with cast bullets and black powder.
starline and norma make good strong brass from 2.4" up to 3 1/4", although both do not do all.
the norma 2 7/8" brass is a little long, so that cases can be trimmed to exact chamber length - a good thing for cast bullets.
my 45/2.4" chamber is of diameter for groove diameter bullets.
the norma 3 1/4 brass shortened to 2.4 " becomes thick necked brass, and can be used in the same chamber for bore diameter bullets.
with black powder these bullets bump up into the rifling, and are as accurate or more so than grove diameter bullets.
with no grease grooves they have less drag than a greaser, and so less wind deflection at 1000 yds.
bruce.

 

[crs]

Simple answer - YES!
Use the right bullet and go do it! I can recommend a PH that has done many hunts for levergunners using modern rifles.
My 1895 .405 WCF, 1886 .45-90, and multiple friends' .45-70
rifles have killed several buffalo in Africa, not to mention Australia, and Texas. My 1886 has also taken ele and leopard (300 grain Nosler) - plain old guns and the right bullets.
In spite of all the above discussion above, a .458 solid or tough JSP like a Woodleigh Weldcore at 2000 fps will terminate any game in Africa or anywhere else for that matter.
It is the bullet and shot placement that is most important.

You do not even need a 45-110 or 120 - my 1886 .45-90 pushes a 450 grain bullet out at 2150 fps and the Northfork and Punch bullets at 2000 fps shoot THROUGH the ele head and into the body with a frontal brain shot.

As far as legal - much ado about very little if your PH understands what you are shooting and that you can shoot. It is just plain old ballistics and physics.

 

[crs]

And Bruce - the 45-70 is a 2.1 and the 45-90 is a 2.4.
I own and shoot both.
My latest toy is this .458 2.1 Beretta DR with 26 inch barrels shown here with a boar the dogs cornered for me:

 

[bruce moulds]

you are right about the 45/70 being 2.1" in sharps language.
however the 2.4" case was always loaded with 100 gns of powder by sharps, and notated so.
confusion on this one possibly comes from the fact that Winchester used the same case 2.4" in express form, loaded with greasers and a lighter bullet, with 90 gns powder and called it 45/90.
I think in the model 86. and 85.
it is sad that today even Shiloh who's rifles are so historically correct fail to recognize that the 2.4" case was designed around 100 gns of powder.
history is so easily forgotten and no one cares.
bruce.