416 Rigby or Rem & is 20” too short?

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Will 416, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. Will 416

    Will 416 AH Senior Member

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    I’ve been looking at a Rigby with a decent price on it with very nice custom touches on it. It’s a cz550, but the only concern I have is that it has the barrel cut to 20”. Is this a deal breaker or an upgrade? Why or why not?Also, would there be much velocity loss in the Rigby case? I love the nostalgia of the Rigby, but would I be better off with a Win 70 Rem mag that is good to go out of the box? (Similar prices, weight, and features) Thanks.
     

  2. Odinsraven

    Odinsraven AH Fanatic

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    25 inch is the standard cant see why anyone would chop it .....anyhow muzzle flip for backup shot would be severe and indeed recoil increased .....

    So do not recommend
     
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  3. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    I would think the over 100 grains of powder that most Rigby loads require, would not burn properly in a 20" barrel.
    The 416 Remington would do better with it's average 75-80 grain charge. The 416 Ruger has a slightly smaller case capacity than the 416 Rem, and it does well in a 20" barrel. However, at that length you're down around 2250 FPS. Still plenty of punch, but not the 2400 FPS you could get in a 24" barrel.
    I happen to have both a Winchester 70 416 Rem with a 24" barrel and a Ruger Alaskan in 416 Ruger with 20" barrel.
    The 416 Rem easily gets 2400 FPS. Whereas the Ruger is indeed down around 2250 FPS.
     
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  4. Will 416

    Will 416 AH Senior Member

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    That’s exactly the real world type of advice that I was looking for due to my lack of experience hunting dg. I think I’ll pass on it then. Even if it is an $1100 dollar price tag on a somewhat customized cz. It is on gunbroker if you’d like more details. I was kind of wondering why no one has bid it up yet.
     

  5. Will 416

    Will 416 AH Senior Member

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    That said, would you (or anyone else) recommend the win 70 out of the box in 416 rem or the stout, but needs work for smoothness, cz in a nostalgic Rigby? Keep in mind, I don’t care about the difference in powder/ammo/components. I’m not wealthy at all, but no more than I shoot, it’s not a major concern. I do reload, so I like the idea of extra room in the case, even if I don’t ever up-load. I love the nostalgia of the Rigby, but sometimes I need the advice of more experienced people to bring me back down to earth. I also like a Lott, but does anyone who is experienced know the real world noticeable difference in the felt recoil of a cz of both the 458 Lott and the 416 Rigby?
     
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  6. Eric Anderson

    Eric Anderson AH Enthusiast

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    Cartridges like the .375 and .416 Ruger were designed with short barrels in mind. The .416 Rigby was not.
    Same thing happened when the US military went from a 20” M-16 to a 14.5” M-4

    5.56mm NATO was designed for 20” barrels.
    It performs like a dumpster fire out of 14.5” barrels.
    The US military has spent the better part of a decade trying to develop a 5.56mm cartridge that performs decently out of a 14.5” barrel. They are still working on it, and pressures are much higher. They would have been better of if they wanted a 14.5” barrel to develop a new cartridge that performs well with that barrel length.

    I have the same feeling you will have the same issues with a short barreled Rigby. It’s not like .30 cal where you can find a bullet for a particular velocity and construction. .416 bullets are pretty much designed to hit at a certain velocity, you aren’t going to be hitting that with 5” of barrel chopped off.
    You are also going to have a lot of muzzle flash.
    If you want a short .416, I would get a Ruger. That cartridge was designed for it.
     
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  7. sierraone

    sierraone AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    +1
     
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  8. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    I can only comment on the Winchester 70 416 Rem Mag and 458 Win Mag. I have the 416 and have had a couple 458s in the same rifle. I can't tell much difference in the recoil between those two calibers.
    The Winchester 70 is excellent right out of the box.
     
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  9. colorado

    colorado AH Fanatic

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    In my opinion 20" is way to short for any of those cartridges. The CZ Classic's (at least mine) come with a 24" barrel it seems fine. I could see going to 22" but no shorter. You could always rebarrel it if the gun is a great deal.
     
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  10. meigsbucks

    meigsbucks AH Fanatic

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    Definitely NOT the chopped Rigby. As Eric stated, the .416 Ruger was designed to work in a 20” barrel. That’s what I use and love it. The M70 in .416 Rem mag would be a good choice.
     
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  11. BWH

    BWH AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I would chose a Rigby over a Rem.... only 2 cents.
     
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  12. neckdeep

    neckdeep AH Enthusiast

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    Look again, another one listed that is not hacked up, nice wood, all of the barrel which is a plus, and a regular stock. I have spent a total of 13 days approximately tracking Buffalo with CZ's that had 24-26 inch barrels and didn't get along to bad. And damn sure glad I had more barrel for the other 13 days spent chasing other animals. Not near as much experience as other's but that's all I got for you.
     
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  13. Rule 303

    Rule 303 AH Fanatic

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    20" barreled CZ550 416 Rigby = No. The shorter barrel will upset the handling and balance of the rifle. The muzzle blast will horrific, recoil will be up, MV well down and the amount of unburnt powder coming out will probably case a flash that can be seen in the next country.

    I agree that a 416 Ruger is the only 416 designed to work in short barrels.
     
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  14. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I agree with others here, the 416 Rigby would not do as well with a shorter barrel. that's a lot of powder to burn and not much barrel to burn it in. the muzzle blast would be unpleasant to say the least and the loss in velocity would be much more then the 416 RM.

    the 416 RM may be fine with a 20" barrel depending on what you use it for. if you use your 416 RM like I do (as a general purpose rifle) then shorter is not recommended. but if your using it strictly as a DG rifle then a 20" barrel wont hurt you. as long as you can get a 400gr bullet over 2000fps at the muzzle your good to go.

    the Winchester M70 Safari in 416 RM is the BEST factory 416 caliber gun on the market! the rifle boasts good balance, a nice trigger, a smooth action, good weight, good accuracy, fantastic reliability, and to top it all off the price is very affordable. right out of the box the M70 in 416 RM is ready for a safari hunting anything ranging from the smallest duiker to the largest bull elephant. you would need to spend 3x the money to get a better 416 caliber rifle.

    -matt
     
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  15. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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  16. Odinsraven

    Odinsraven AH Fanatic

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  17. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    nobody is bitching and its only an inch longer......Rigbys themselves use 22 or 24 inch as standard. my 4 or so 416s i have had from them over the years all were 22 inch.....i bought a cz550 416 rigby with the synthetic stock from holts after it didnt sell i paid £500.00 ......i had it sent to paul and when he got it he said it was new, he didnt think whoever sold it had fired it....i got him to take it down to 21 inches.......doesnt boot or jump around anymore than my ones with whole inch longer barrel....
     
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  18. Odinsraven

    Odinsraven AH Fanatic

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    As each desires - have a couple in the Safe CZ models - seems to work fine - have a 458 with a monster barrel made in Belgium - very 70's style - its 22 inches and handles great - However on the whole I prefer them as they come - not hard to get a bargain in DG rifles - Only ever once got a CZ602 this had worked would love to know its history - barrel was worn inside and out - stock was beat to shit ! Bought it in the UK !

    I sell them as a hobby - have a part time gun store - and I know 70 percent of DG rifles will never see the "Green Hills of Africa " in a few short years have already traded in DG rifles I have previously sold - Next Year - when the kids are older - Move house - then before they know it - illness or just too unfit to hunt !

    We here are fortunate that we have been and hope to go again !
     

  19. TTundra

    TTundra AH Enthusiast

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    According to the OP, Wayne at AHR did the work other than paint....I dont think anyone would call Wayne's work "Bubba" style.


    To this threads OP. Is 20" too short for a Rigby? Depends solely on you. If you load your own and have the components, it might be a fun project. People bought and/or made 416 Rigby encore barrels at 15"....Handgunners are a breed all their own. Where's @edward to chime in there?

    I'm looking for my next bolt gun in a .40+ caliber. I like short barrels so @TOBY458 's B&M thread has me still looking at their 18" and 20" models. Then again, the MRC African in 505 Gibbs has a 22" barrel standard...(y)
     

  20. CTDolan

    CTDolan AH Elite

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    If you reload the big Rigby will do fine with a 20" barrel. Just got to choose a faster powder. The only issue will be that you'll be in uncharted waters as all published data will likely be for a standard 24" barrel. But, as mentioned, just pick a powder on the faster end of the spectrum (obviously bearing in mind what you'll be stuffing it in).
     

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