416 Rigby bent brass

[Andrew Short]

All,

I have recently acquired a RSM 416 Rigby and I was able to shoot it for the first time today. My ammo is Hornady DGS 400 grain factory ammo. All pieces of the the brass were bent the cartridge rim.
What causes this issue??

 

[USMA84DAB]

Andrew - I would refer to the shown portion of the case as the mouth. The rim is what the extractor grabs onto at the other end of the case/on the table.

Most likely it was dented/pushed in when they hit the ground. possible the case mouth drug over the edge of the chamber, but I think #1 much more likely.

No worries - a bit of lube and a run into the resizing die and the problem will be solved!

 

[Wyatt Smith]

My Winchester rifles will have some brass colored marks on the rear bridge of the receiver where the brass hits it. It leaves little dents in the brass like yours.
Like USMA said just resize them.

 

[norfolk shooter]

Nothing to worry about my Lee Enfield SMLE .303 does it if I cycle the bolt like a beast (mad minute). But like the chaps have said so far they will resize just fine

 

[Andrew Short]

Good deal! I’ve never seen this with any of my rifles before so i was a little concerned. Didn’t know if it was cheaper Hornady brass...
My plan was to shoot through these and reload with A frames. Was able to pickup some H4350 today as @Shootist43 recommended.

 

[Andrew Short]

Andrew - I would refer to the shown portion of the case as the mouth. The rim is what the extractor grabs onto at the other end of the case/on the table.

Most likely it was dented/pushed in when they hit the ground. possible the case mouth drug over the edge of the chamber, but I think #1 much more likely.

No worries - a bit of lube and a run into the resizing die and the problem will be solved!

You’re right it the mouth. My mistake in terminology.

 

[Luvthunt]

Well it could be the cheaper brass but hitting the receiver on ejection is possible cause if brass is on the thin side

 

[IdaRam]

Extraction/ejection. The harder you run the bolt, the worse it’s going to get. The mouth of the case hits the inside of the receiver as it gets extracted and ejected. Hornady brass doesn’t hold up as well as Norma, but even Norma brass in my RSM .416 Rigby takes a beating.

 

[Paul Miller]

I have a RSM 416 Rigby and have never had a problem bending the case mouth you show. I did have a feed problem when I first got the gun using Barnes TSX 400 Gr ammo. Gunsmith smoothed up the extractor with a fine grained Emory paper. Problem solved. If the problem continues I’d take the gun to a good gunsmith that has experience getting DG rifles Africa ready. IMO your rifle is one of, if not the best in its class, but almost none of them are Africa ready out of the box. Don’t know what you plan on hunting, but with a 416 Rigby RSM it sounds like you’re headed for a new adventure. Good luck!!!

 

[fourfive8]

I don't know for certain, but it appears the rim of the mouth is hitting the inside of the receiver ring during ejection- as other have posted. Not a big issue if it extracts and ejects cleanly and reliably. That mouth dent is not sharp angled so it should smooth out during resizing/neck expanding.

 

[Andrew Short]

I don't know for certain, but it appears the rim of the mouth is hitting the inside of the receiver ring during ejection- as other have posted. Not a big issue if it extracts and ejects cleanly and reliably. That mouth dent is not sharp angled so it should smooth out during resizing/neck expanding.

I agree with you. I fired 6 rounds and each one had varying size dents in the mouth. I had zero issues with extraction but after firing a third shot in rapid succession I did experience some feeding difficulty.

I Don’t think it will be an issue for resizing. I’m not sure if I’m going to keep this rifle or the 404 so i haven’t purchased dies.

 

[fourfive8]

Yes, if no issues with extraction/ejection, other than the cosmetic dent, then not much worry. If it has feed issues that is different and would require a serious look and correction.

 

[Andrew Short]

Yes, if no issues with extraction/ejection, other than the cosmetic dent, then not much worry. If it has feed issues that is different and would require a serious look and correction.

I was running the rifle fast and my first two rounds were super smooth but on the third round was not. It was more difficult to feed but did go with a little force of the bolt.
I only fired 6 rounds from the Rigby during the trip therefore I need to put a lot more range time. If it happens again I will have a smith take a look.

 

[bruce moulds]

is the rsm controlled round feed?
i think it is.
does it have a plunger ejector or a standing one like mauser or current m70?
standing ejectors should not come into play until the case is well clear of the front ring.
with this type of ejector, hard cycling can cause neck dents when the neck actually hits the outside of the rear ring.
the softer the neck, the more the dent.
if a plunger ejector is causing the neck to hit inside the front ring and denting, then the brass is probably way too soft.
bruce.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

The easy way to tell here is to fire a round and open it sssslllllllooooowwwllllyyy. Watch the brass, perhaps even put a finger on it to ease the ejection and see if it comes out with either no dent or a smaller one. Then do a normal pull, not super aggressive. Compare the two results. Like others I've had this other rifles, not really a big deal. It will resize back to round no problem.

 

[fourfive8]

Unless mistaken, the RSM has a regular long claw type CRF extractor and a spring loaded plunger ejector. Because the Rigby has a pretty fat case body, there is a large "step" transition between chamber and receiver ring. When extracting slowly there is not a lot of kinetic force acting on the mouth rim to dent it as it hits the ring upon extraction/ejection. But increase the speed and there is a large increase in kinetic force (velocity) being imparted on the mouth rim as it strikes the interior of the receiver ring between clearing the chamber and the inside surface of the receiver ring. The same thing happens, usually to a much lesser degree though with smaller diameter cartridges from any common plunger, non-standing type ejector system like the Rem 700. Very common to see bent mouth rims on ejected cases from many semi auto and auto type actions. If the empty is flipped away consitently/cleanly- really no issue. The only other possibility I can think of is if the case is being flipped into a part of the scope or mount... if the rifle is scope mounted. That's a lot more common than most think but the impact dent is usually closer to the shoulder than the edge of the case mouth. No matter, It's the increased interference or force needed to chamber the last round that is not right and needs to be looked at and corrected- IMO.

 

[Andrew Short]

I went through 20 rounds yesterday and could not duplicate the feed issue I had on the first day. I ran the bolt slow as well as hard/fast. The rifle fed super smooth and threw the brass 4-5 feet from me.

I dont know what caused the feed difficulty on day 1 but it did occur.

The brass does dent more when running the bolt harder. I thinkit is contacting the ring when clearing the chamber.

 

[fourfive8]

Good to hear! Thanks for the update. Maybe just a small gremlin/burr in the raceway somewhere or rails or magazine/follower bearing surface or who knows? For a while at least, keep practicing those variable hard/fast cycles when shooting at the range. Also practice loading or topping off the magazine in a hurry. There is some chance that during some DG hunt in the future you or the user of that rifle will be cycling and reloading under stress. If that rifle will be used for DG- that's the best time spent and practice you'll ever do.

 

[Andrew Short]

Good to hear! Thanks for the update. Maybe just a small gremlin/burr in the raceway somewhere or rails or magazine/follower bearing surface or who knows? For a while at least, keep practicing those variable hard/fast cycles when shooting at the range. Also practice loading or topping off the magazine in a hurry. There is some chance that during some DG hunt in the future you or the user of that rifle will be cycling and reloading under stress. If that rifle will be used for DG- that's the best time spent and practice you'll ever do.

Thanks! I hope it was something simple like you stated.
I need a lot more time with the rifle to become familiar with it. I’ve own m77s but nothing like this Rigby. I’m going to need a lot more ammo that’s for sure.

One thing I have already found that I don’t like is how small the 3 position safety is. I’m not sure a smith could could anything with it but I certainly want to find out.

On the bright side, the gun is super accurate with iron sights. I can hit center diamonds repeatedly at 50 yards firing as fast as I can. Also the recoil isn’t as bad as I anticipated. Not near as bad as a 3.5 inch turkey load. The gun weighs 10.2 lbs empty.

 

[fourfive8]

"One thing I have already found that I don’t like is how small the 3 position safety is. I’m not sure a smith could could anything with it but I certainly want to find out."

That is most interesting and was EXACTLY my impression and thoughts when I first handled their Hawkeye model over 15 years ago.... "who in the world came up with that little safety lever tucked in there like that !??" It is in more or less the right place and is somewhat similar to a Win 70 lever that I'm most familiar with but just not right and not large enough! A little off topic from original post but still important, IMO, and agreed. Interesting we had the same initial thought.

A smith who is good at fabrication and has a welder good for small work or ever knowledgable about forging could probably add a new, larger "thumb piece" and greatly improve it.