.405 Winchester and Cape Buffalo?

Mr. 16 gauge

AH fanatic
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
652
Reaction score
926
Location
Michigan
Media
3
Hunting reports
Africa
2
I'm just curious......is the .405 Winchester "enough gun" for hunting cape buffalo? I know it meets the caliber requirements (it's bigger than .375 diameter......but so is a .44 magnum, and I wouldn't use one of those on a cape buffalo), but does it have enough energy? My research shows a 3oo grain bullet (soft or full patch solid) at 2200 fps.
Enough gun, or would you use something else?
Thanks for your input.............
 

Velo Dog

Silver supporter
AH legend
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
3,379
Reaction score
4,971
Location
Anchorage
Media
58
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
NRA Life Member.
Hunted
Africa 5 times, USA - most western states including Alaska and Hawaii.
I'm just curious......is the .405 Winchester "enough gun" for hunting cape buffalo? I know it meets the caliber requirements (it's bigger than .375 diameter......but so is a .44 magnum, and I wouldn't use one of those on a cape buffalo), but does it have enough energy? My research shows a 3oo grain bullet (soft or full patch solid) at 2200 fps.
Enough gun, or would you use something else?
Thanks for your input.............

Something else.

However, for PG in the jess or thornbush or riverine forest, (what we call "woods hunting conditions" here in N. America), I suspect it would be one of the best.
 
Last edited:

matt85

AH legend
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
2,662
Reaction score
1,957
Location
WA, USA
Media
28
Hunted
USA, South Africa, and Namibia
here is what was taught were the general rules for a DG cartridge:

1. bullet diameter of .375" or greater (i actually prefer .400" or greater).
2. a sectional density of .300 or greater.
3. 4000+ ft/lb of muzzle energy.

-matt
 

crs

AH fanatic
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
988
Reaction score
1,250
Location
Republic of Texas
Website
sheltontechnologies.com
Media
6
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
CRS, NRA Patron Member, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Hunted
RSA
The answer is YES! Many cape buff, water buff, bison, big bears, etc have been taken with the .405 WCF with the proper bullets. I have taken all those with my .405 and you should be able to find my 2012 cape buff post on this site.

On the non dangerous game I used 300 grain bullets and prefer the Northfork selection as they address all needs.
For the cape buff, I used 400 grain Woodleighs at 2080 fps (the regulation velocity for a friends 450-400 double) and it did the job nicely.
 

CAustin

Bronze supporter
AH ambassador
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
14,193
Reaction score
11,287
Media
252
Hunting reports
Africa
7
Member of
Courtney Hunting Club, NRA Life Member, SCI Kansas City Chapter
Hunted
South Africa, KwaZulu Natal, Kalahari, Northwest, Limpopo, Gauteng, APNR Kruger Area. USA Georgia, South Carolina, Arkansas, New Mexico, North Carolina and Texas
Good shot placement?.??? Then yes use it!
 

crs

AH fanatic
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
988
Reaction score
1,250
Location
Republic of Texas
Website
sheltontechnologies.com
Media
6
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
CRS, NRA Patron Member, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Hunted
RSA
+1 on good shot placement - period!
We were behind at a slight angle and PH said to shoot it between the front legs.
The 400 grain Woodie Weldcore entered just back of the rearmost rib and exited between the front legs, leaving a big hole through the heart. When the darn thing tried to walk off, a Woodie solid through the pelvis dropped it.
 

crs

AH fanatic
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
988
Reaction score
1,250
Location
Republic of Texas
Website
sheltontechnologies.com
Media
6
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
CRS, NRA Patron Member, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Hunted
RSA
Last edited by a moderator:

Velo Dog

Silver supporter
AH legend
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
3,379
Reaction score
4,971
Location
Anchorage
Media
58
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
NRA Life Member.
Hunted
Africa 5 times, USA - most western states including Alaska and Hawaii.
The answer is YES! Many cape buff, water buff, bison, big bears, etc have been taken with the .405 WCF with the proper bullets. I have taken all those with my .405 and you should be able to find my 2012 cape buff post on this site.

On the non dangerous game I used 300 grain bullets and prefer the Northfork selection as they address all needs.
For the cape buff, I used 400 grain Woodleighs at 2080 fps (the regulation velocity for a friends 450-400 double) and it did the job nicely.


Hi Crs,

Good information, thanks for posting it.
I am in agreement with you that a 400 grain bullet in this cartridge should put it into a different category.

If I had a .405, as long as the chamber pressure is safe, then I might be interested in trying 400 grainers in it.
Not sure my wimpy shoulder would appreciate it from a Model 95 lever action though (light overall weight rifle and a lot of drop in the stock shape) but I would try it, again if I had one, which I sadly do not.

The regular 300 grainers at about 2200 fps are pretty sporting in recoil but not brutal, from what I remember back when I had fired one.
I was thinking of that factory standard 300 gr load when I responded, "something else" to the OP's question, due simply to the low sectional density of a 300 grain bullet in .41 caliber.

On a DVD, I saw that the famous author Craig Boddington had Hornady load up some 400 grain solids for his daughter to use in her Ruger No1 single shot on a buffalo (Zimbabwe?)
And it worked well.
That ammunition is not sold to the general public though.
As you have done, handloading is the only way to get it.
However, for my safari dollar, if I wanted to bring an approximately .40 caliber Ruger single shot for buffalo, I would just get their .450/400 caliber in the first place.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.
 

Nicholas Barcomb

AH veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
174
Reaction score
77
Location
South of San Antonio, TX, USA
Media
4
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
Ducks Unlimited, North American Hunting Club, BASS, North American Fishing Club
Hunted
Canada and USA
I would say yes. I bought a Ruger #1 Specifically for that purpose and got some Barnes 300 gr TSXs going pretty good and pretty accurate. However, since I have a few more years to digest things, I have moved on to a 416 Rigby. Just because I already have an original Winchester Deluxe TD Model 1895 in .405 Winchester.

Ruger #1H Tropical, 405 Winchester:


The target and load for the Ruger #1 (DO NOT USE IN WINCHESTER OR MIROKU 95!):


Winchester Deluxe TD Model 1895, .405 Winchester:
 

Attachments

  • Barnes300grTSXFB001_zpse73f2520.jpg
    Barnes300grTSXFB001_zpse73f2520.jpg
    71.2 KB · Views: 193
  • mypictures966.jpg
    mypictures966.jpg
    95 KB · Views: 4,883
  • mypictures1002.jpg
    mypictures1002.jpg
    395.2 KB · Views: 628

Velo Dog

Silver supporter
AH legend
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
3,379
Reaction score
4,971
Location
Anchorage
Media
58
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
NRA Life Member.
Hunted
Africa 5 times, USA - most western states including Alaska and Hawaii.
Nicholaus,

Your Model 95 is a museum piece (no doubt you already knew that) and I am truly impressed.

Regards,
Velo Dog.
 

shuter

AH enthusiast
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
339
Reaction score
155
Website
www.roboliveauthor.com
Media
16
Hunted
Oregon, Montana
Nicholaus,

Your Model 95 is a museum piece (no doubt you already knew that) and I am truly impressed.

Regards,
Velo Dog.
No kidding...absolutely gorgeous! I have a semi-custom reproduction 1895 in .405 but yours give me the sweats!
 

Witold Krzyżanowski

AH ambassador
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
5,119
Reaction score
2,766
Location
Trzebiatów - Poland
Media
15
Hunting reports
Europe
1
Member of
1977; Polish Hunting Assotiation
Hunted
Namibia, Zimbabwe
I agree with Velo Dog.Nicholas, your Wincester mod. 1895 in 405 is a beautiful piece of history.
Witold
 

Steve Steyr

AH veteran
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
142
Reaction score
78
Media
4
My understanding that, in a Ruger #1, you can max load a 400 grain bullet to 2100 fps, which is the equal to 450/400 3", 450/400 3 1/4", and .404 Jeffery factory loads. Few would argue their effectiveness for over 100 years, now, on Cape buffalo.
As you mentioned, best not try this in a Model 95.
 

crs

AH fanatic
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
988
Reaction score
1,250
Location
Republic of Texas
Website
sheltontechnologies.com
Media
6
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
CRS, NRA Patron Member, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Hunted
RSA
Steve,
I agree with you on the proven effectiveness of the 41 caliber 400 grain bullet at 2100 fps on large and dangerous game.
However, I would be remiss not to explain that in my Miroku made Winchester 1895 .405, I achieved 2080 fps without exceeding 50,000 psi. I was prepared to go a little higher, but when the regulation velocity of the 450-400 double of a friend was reached with a very low standard deviation, he suggested that higher velocity was not needed. He was right.
I have located a powder that will reach the desired velocity with lower pressure and will experiment with it when I expend my supply of loaded 400 grain Woodie softs and solids. That may be a while because 300 grain bullets do a fine job on most critters such as this little porker taken yesterday at the Boars Nest in Oklahoma:
 

Attachments

  • 2015-03-28 11.32.56.jpg
    2015-03-28 11.32.56.jpg
    235.4 KB · Views: 191
Last edited by a moderator:

Steve Steyr

AH veteran
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
142
Reaction score
78
Media
4
Nice looking rifle. Looks like it got the job done.
Yes, the sectional density of the 400 grain 410's is way above .3. And it's interesting you are getting 2080 fps in your '95.
FWIW-I was reading that, with a "fat belly" Winchester 94 in .444, pressures of 55,000 were possible but not recommended as a steady diet. The writer was getting @2500 fps with 300 grain .429's. Puts it into another class entirely.
 

Amon458

AH veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
141
Reaction score
25
Location
North Dakota
This thread has really made me want to get a model 1895 in 405 win. Why wouldnt this caliber work for buffalo if you where using the 360gr northfork.
 

crs

AH fanatic
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
988
Reaction score
1,250
Location
Republic of Texas
Website
sheltontechnologies.com
Media
6
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
CRS, NRA Patron Member, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Hunted
RSA
Amon,
The .405 WCF has taken many such critters with 300 grain bullets. With modern premium bullets, my .405 has taken two water buffalo, a two bison, a Nilgai and numerous other exotics, deer, pronghorn and hogs; all with 300 grain bullets. For the big stuff, I prefer Northfork CPS and FPS, at 2250 fps that shoot to the same point of aim as the Hornady factory 300 grain bullets. The Barnes bullets are fine also. Some of my 1895 .405 lever gun friends have loaded 300 grain bullets up to 2350-2400 fps just for the fun of it, but I have not done so.
I always wanted a .405 WCF in a double because it is so easy to equal the performance of the 450-400, but so far, no bueno. So much to do, so little time.
 

fsrmg1

AH veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
169
Reaction score
137
Location
Perth, Western Australia
Media
6
Member of
SSAA, NRA, BGRC, MMA
Hunted
AK, US, AU, DE, CZ
I have a nice original Deluxe Winchester 95 .405 WCF with a shotgun buttstock and the express sights I plan on using on a water buffalo hunt. I plan to use a Woodleigh .416 projectile swaged down to fit the actual groove diameter (.4135") and Rx17. Should give me good performance at reasonable pressures for the old girl.
 

AZDAVE

AH elite
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
1,819
Reaction score
2,475
Media
166
Hunting reports
Africa
3
Hunted
South Africa, Alaska,lower 48
CRS I hope you find a double at some point, I love mine. Have worked up several nice regulation loads with 300gr woodleigh and hornadays. Plicked up some hawk 350gr that I plan on working with over the winter. Hope you use my 405 on a Lion at some point.
 

crs

AH fanatic
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
988
Reaction score
1,250
Location
Republic of Texas
Website
sheltontechnologies.com
Media
6
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
CRS, NRA Patron Member, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Hunted
RSA
AZdave
What make .405 double do you have?

fsrmg1 -
I found that for 400 grain bullets, the .411 Woodleigh bullets worked best in my Miroku 1895 .405.
I use the 300 grain .411 North Fork bullets also with good results.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
35,570
Messages
663,735
Members
60,227
Latest member
Kelsey65I
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris wrote on jfowler812's profile.
hi Mr fowler

im happy to do these deals for 2021

i will knock off 10% off each deal if you take 2 so $18000 per package

look forward to your response

regards
Mule deer and Colorado elk seasons almost done! Hunters driving farm roads, looking for racks, their PH driving them along, I ask that you not pull into my drive. The buck behind me, on the boundary line of the GMU somehow knows. The hunter laughs, I would invite you in to see my Searcy rifles but social distancing prevails, darkness arrives and the buck slides away into secret tree grove...
Boyd Brooks wrote on Skinnersblade's profile.
Ellwood Epps has 1 box of 25-20 in stock. Look them up on the web. They are located in Orilla Ontario.
Lkhntr wrote on Warpig602's profile.
On the vx6 2-12 what does the zl2 stand for?

Thanks, Oliver
bowjijohn wrote on AfricaHunting.com's profile.
Many thanks for re formatting my article for the forum

I served my time in both the bush and during the bush war

I hope it did it justice

Education is where it is at - without it the wild places are history

You - sir - are well placed to make a difference

J
 
Top