404 Ruger

375sunrise

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Does anyone have any experience w/ this wildcat (375, 416 Ruger necked up to .423 bore ) & if so would you share your experience with the round. Also would like to find someome ( individual or smith ) that has the reamer & gauges available. Thanks, Dale.
 
i guess my question would be... why? it would be a ballistic twin to the 416 Ruger except it would be harder to find bullets and you would have to custom make all your brass.

you could also find yourself having trouble getting the ammunition into many African countries because the head stamp on your brass will not match the chambering of your rifle.

-matt
 
Sounds like a neat idea, but is it worth all the effort for an extra .007 of an inch? If you want bigger, the next logical step would be a .450 Ruger.
 
While I agree completely with the responses to the 404 Ruger question...you do have to admit it sounds funny when confirmed rifle nuts tell another rifle nut that he is not being practical!

Anyone else see the irony? :A Stirring:
 
Sounds like a neat idea, but is it worth all the effort for an extra .007 of an inch? If you want bigger, the next logical step would be a .450 Ruger.

i agree with this except there is one issue. the Ruger cartridge doesnt have a belt so its got nothing to head space off of if you lose the shoulder. cartridges like the 458 WM, 458 Lott, and 470 Capstick all head space off the belt rather then a shoulder.

if you can retain enough shoulder (not sure if its possible) with the Ruger then a 458 might be possible.

-matt
 
Thanks to everyone for their input. I found a smith that has done several of these & has everything available.
Sent a PM... would love more info on the gunsmith. Looking to do the same project.
 
@375sunrise for a wildcatter sometimes you just have to do something that makes sense to you:) I have several wildcats that I like to shoot and the only person that has to like them is me so I can relate to your wanting something different. Let us know how it shoots when you get it done.
 
While I agree completely with the responses to the 404 Ruger question...you do have to admit it sounds funny when confirmed rifle nuts tell another rifle nut that he is not being practical!

Anyone else see the irony? :A Stirring:

Why is not a word that should be part of the Gun World's lexicon unless it is followed by Not.:D
 
i agree with this except there is one issue. the Ruger cartridge doesnt have a belt so its got nothing to head space off of if you lose the shoulder. cartridges like the 458 WM, 458 Lott, and 470 Capstick all head space off the belt rather then a shoulder.

if you can retain enough shoulder (not sure if its possible) with the Ruger then a 458 might be possible.

-matt
I agree with you about the shoulder. I have a 358 win. and it doesn't have much of a shoulder. I have had a misfire and don't know if this was the problem or the die has to be set perfectly. May of been a bad primer. Anyhow the 416 doesn't have much of one either and would only be worse if necked up. This is why I like the 416 rem. better. It's one cartridge that the belt does have a purpose.
 
This is an old post & that project was completed & has since moved on to another rifle nut. I have been using a 400 Whelen lately & am happy with it.
 
Instead of creating another wildcat I´d think about the .404 Dakota: suits in a standard system, has approx. 10grs more H2O case capacity than the Ruger case and the design is (more or less) available.

Reamers and gauges from Pacific Tool and Gauges, Dave Manson or Clymer
Brass from RCC
 
Drawbacks to the 404 Dakota are fireforming brass from 404Jeffery or buying Dakota brass (very expensive if you can find it). Modifying an action for proper feeding. Dies are custom priced anyway as nobody carries them.

In my opinion the 404 Ruger is easier. 416 Ruger brass with a single pass over a .423 sizing button. Once you have a custom FL Die set, it's just like resizing fired brass, even if virgin 416 Ruger. 416 Ruger brass is cheap, easy to find. If you need to buy proper headstamp brass for Africa, that can be had as well. I already have a load of .423 bullets and nothing in the .416 on my bench. The 404 Ruger will easily match 404 Jeffery loads, even in a shorter barrel (unless you're pushing the 404Jeffery to it's limits, but even then it can be matched.) Load data is readily available in nearly every manual - 416 Ruger data will be nearly identical.
 
While I agree completely with the responses to the 404 Ruger question...you do have to admit it sounds funny when confirmed rifle nuts tell another rifle nut that he is not being practical!

Anyone else see the irony? :A Stirring:
It would be great if people would be more supportive of people who try to think out of the box....for example take look t how many knowledgeable people /engineers has told Elon Musk that what he wants to achieve or build was just not possible...luckily most such people like Elon take the challenge up to prove their critics wrong, along the way we are all benefiting from one man`s quest to push the envelope through new borders , paving the way for others to follow and share in the advantages of these quests.....
Not to brag or think I have all the answers to all challenges ...with the assistance of a friend Johan Greyling we had to think out of the box on this project...a lot of people pointed out that the following quest is not possible..
 
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Good day members.
Something interesting I like to share with you who are interested in fire-forming brass. A few years back I bought a 404 Jeffery hunting rifle. At that stage 404 Jeffery brass seems not so abundant in South Africa. I had a few eighty years old 404 rounds but was reluctant to shoot these old rounds.

While taking photos of the rifle and old rounds I received from the previous owner , I noticed some of the brass was .375 H&H Belted Magnum rounds and brass. I started wondering if it will be possible to fire form this brass to fit in my 404 Jeffery.

P1010780_zpsmgupgbi9.jpg

P1010799_zpslebnfo2x.jpg

As usual, when contemplating an issue I do not have real answers for, I approached Johan Greyling, the gunsmith with all the answers.

Meanwhile I did post this question on an Afrikaans forum I was a member of that time, naturally all the "clever" people who have all the correct answers available , frequent this forum and this idea was opposed immediately . These "clever " gave measurements to state why this venture is a still born exercise that will never work. ( The knowledge of these "clever persons was determined by the quantity of rifles they possess.

Meanwhile Johan Greyling explain to me the concept of fire-forming and flow of brass. He also explained that by using 15 gn MP 2OO in the brass stuffed with maze-meal is a safe procedure to blow out brass.

We did fire form the brass in two stages as well as run it through the 404 Jeffery sizing die. The first fire forming round showed the brass fire-formed from the neck to halve way of the brass.
DSC_0010_zpsi6krrvcu.jpg


I used the MP200 15 gn with maze-meal for the second time as well, and run it through the full length 404 sizer.

P1011467_zpsrwljjwbk.jpg

The third time I re-load 71 gn S335 and a 400 gn cast bullet to shoot . This ensured a fully formed .375 H&H Magnum brass fitting in my 404 Jeffery rifle.

P1011469_zps6h2nu1or.jpg

P1011472_zpseepmgvwu.jpg


Phase Two:
I cut the fired formed brass open , as well as a standard .375 H&H Magnum brass and a standard 404 Jeffery brass.
P1011494_zpso3cx0tzl.jpg


This was done to take measurements of how the brass flow happened. I made use of a veneer to take some measurements.
P1011523_zpsgytxenda.jpg
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Measuring:
Figure4_zpssru1odmx.jpg


Figure3_zpsxoezomle.jpg


Figure2_zpscgfjj9tg.jpg


I should mention the part which was a concern to the "clever" persons was the part above the belt. In the photo it seems as if the brass bulged out...when holding the brass in your hand this is not evident.
After the experiment I did shoot this brass a lot of times in the tunnel at the safe as well as on the BASA shooting days. This is two years + now and I still re-load this fire-formed brass and shoot it frequently. So far no cracks, head separations, blow outs, blow-ups, nothing the "clever all knowledgeable people " warned me about.

I did mentioned that it is good to posses a lot of theoretical knowledge, but it is even better to posses practical, hands on skills and knowledge.

As pointed out, at no stage was there any dangerous procedures done, since 15 gn of MP 200 stuffed with maze-meal can not in any situation pose danger when following these procedures...

I hope you enjoyed this thread....any inputs are more than welcome...
 

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WAAAAIIIIIITTTTTT just a minute. So you've already proven the use of 375H&H brass in a 404 Jeffery, after fireforming using the (in America) Unique Powder/Cream of Wheat trick. That's awesome. Seriously never thought that would be possible. GENIUS!!!
 
WAAAAIIIIIITTTTTT just a minute. So you've already proven the use of 375H&H brass in a 404 Jeffery, after fireforming using the (in America) Unique Powder/Cream of Wheat trick. That's awesome. Seriously never thought that would be possible. GENIUS!!!
Capt Oscar, keep in mind my friend Johan Greyling assisted me in this procedures..to me the .375 H&H Magnum brass is the most versatile brass to use in fire form exercises... the belt on the brass where the head-spacing is in a belted magnum caliber changed to a shoulder head-spacing in the belt less brass of the 404 Jeffery
 

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