.404 Jeffery vs .458 Winchester Comparison

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Ray B, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    I will re-load the two calibers to the exact muzzle velocity..in this regards I will consult with my good friend and mentor Johan Greyling ...(y)(y)
     

  2. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    Ok to download for plains game.
    However the 404 Jeff will outperform the 458 with said 400gr bullets by a far margin.
    The 404 400gr bullet has a higher sectional density, will hold velocity better, will penetrate better, has a much better momentum value and will drop less which will result in better performance.

    For kudu and warthog, they will not know the difference or what hit them, they will fall over.
     

  3. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    IvW you are definitely correct..(y)(y) But if possible I need to know this myself, so I will really try my best to shoot at least two warthogs, each one with every caliber rifle... however shooting the kudu will be done with the 404 Jeffery and I really hope I can shoot a second kudu with the .458 Win Mag...it will be a tall order..since I have a ghost ring on it...my eyes are not young anymore....(y)(y)(y) But we will have results on the warthogs at least...(y)(y)
     

  4. MSTJEAN

    MSTJEAN BRONZE SUPPORTER New Member

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    My AHR CZ 404 is the most accurate rifle in my collection. 400gr TSX from Lonnie Crib at Superior ammunition are tuned in at about 2450fps.
    One shot kills/drops on Cape buffalo to Roan to impala.
    Comfortable to shoot and universally applicable to all African game.
     
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  5. Ray B

    Ray B AH Elite

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    To minimize the "apples -oranges" aspects of testing, this Spring I'll get some Swift A-frames in 400 gr, .423 & .458. Keeping the comparison fair and consistent with each cartridges potential I'll need to factor in the following: the Jeffery case has more powder capacity, the Winchester runs higher pressure, the sectional density (therefore increased inertia) is greater in the .423 while the surface area to pressure is greater for the .458. So I'm not sure if developing loads with equal velocities would show cartridge potential. Some on here don't value the results of water impact testing, however in my experience it accomplishes the following: impact consistency, equal testing medium, and valid bullet to bullet relative results. such testing does not imitate how a bullet will respond to hitting big game hide and bone. Short of lining up several dozen animals and shooting dozens of bullets followed by pot-mortems a practical way of comparing how one bullet, in this case a 400 grain 404 Jeffery compares to a 400 grain 458 Winchester, does give results for comparison. A point of consideration in all tests where the variables are reduced to a minimum is that a big game hunter would likely choose a bullet designed for specific uses. while he/she may use a 400 gr in the 404J, the 458 may be better suited with a 450 grain bullet. So despite the best efforts to make it a fair test, any guidelines result in compromises. But then, that gives possibilities for more tests. So all is not completely futile.
     

  6. Razor

    Razor New Member

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    I would love to hear more about "only the 404j will kill with panache". Are you serious?
     

  7. ChrisG

    ChrisG BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I would have to say... YES! the .404 is the classic of classics. It conjures up images of the smoke filled bar room at the Norfolk Hotel and lines of porters carrying 2 months provisions, large game bags and spry english gentlemen wearing pith helmets with handlbar mustaches. It has panache written all over it. Not so much for the .458 Win Mag. It just punches holes in things and kills them. The .404 is a whole experience that will also put the trophy on the ground post haste.
     
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  8. 8x68

    8x68 AH Fanatic

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    They both kill things just as dead but again it comes down to: what are you comfortable shooting and most importantly shot placement. I agree with the 404 sentiment that it's a much classier round. I have a 404 and 458 Lott. I prefer the 404. I can shoot it better and it hurts wayyyy less.
     

  9. ChrisG

    ChrisG BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I can't wait to hear the results of this. Emperical testing is always going to trump SD and all the theoretical mathematical concepts like foot-pounds of energy. Be sure to include pictures, It will prove very interesting I am sure, especially on bigger game like Kudu.
     

  10. bilmcc

    bilmcc AH Enthusiast

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    Kudu will fall to a shot from a .270 Winchester.
     

  11. 375 Ruger Fan

    375 Ruger Fan AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    If word of this gets to the liberal media, "panache" might get outlawed!:E Happy:
     
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  12. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    I definitely will upload pictures as well , I will do my best to give results in this regards, always challenging to try and get results when hunting live animals and not shooting at paper or over a chrony...I , myself really want to see what results I will get between these two calibers using the same bullet weight ....(y)
     

  13. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    interesting , but i would have thought there will be no chance of finding the bullets using these two calibres on warthog....unless you have a few lined up behind each other ;)
     

  14. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Spike -T, your guess is as good as mine at this stage..I really do not know what to expect when shooting the two warthogs with these two calibers. The positive side to this is I have two more hunts lined up before the Kathu hunt..I will commence with the test on these two hunts..maybe I will get results there as well..it give me a larger window of opportunity(y)...
     
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  15. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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  16. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    Checking in hoping to hear results since I'm building a 404J
    Shawn
     

  17. 8x68

    8x68 AH Fanatic

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    Awesome calibre!
    From what I have read they'll both do the job (400gr bullet at around 2400fps ME 4850 ft/lbs vs 500gr bullet at approx 2100fps ME 4900 ft/lbs). Depends on personal preference. I have a 404J an love it. I find the recoil more manageable than the 458.
    Lets put it this way: A PH once told me during some email correspondence that someone shows up at the camp with a 458 Winny he brings out the cheap Scotch. Some one shows up with a 404J out comes the good stuff!
    Good luck with the 404J!
     
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  18. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    B
    Best choice between the two, you will not be sorry, good luck.
     

  19. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Returned from my blue wildebees hunt , used the 404 Jeffery, 350 gn core-bonded bullet from Stewart . Powder S365, 75 gn, at 2150 f/s. It destroyed the blue wildebeest, blown a hole through the blue wildebeest cow, she dropped like a ton of bricks. I could push my whole fist through the hole from side to side after it was skinned...I did not recovered the bullet, it went through...here is a photo...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The damage is better seen on the slaughtered carcass. I did not take a photo the damage ...but it was extensive..as mentioned in another thread I was able to push my fist through from ons side to the other side...I would definitely re-load to 1850 f/s next time I shoot the 404 when hunting again..
    Photo of impala , same results..it has blown a huge hole through the rib-cage...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Something interesting..here are two types of brass used in my 404 Jeffery, the one is a normal 404 Jeffery brass..the other one a .375 H&H Magnum brass fire formed to shoot in my 404 Jeffery...
    [​IMG]
     

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  20. Ray B

    Ray B AH Elite

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    That's the problem when bullets are well constructed- they exit the animal so that you can't examine them and see how well they kept to the manufacturers claimed for expansion and retained weight. But their performance is certainly beyond question- you did well!!
     

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